PAL DVD on USA player?

[mm]

I accidentally bought a PAL DVD (it was shipped from Cleveland!)**

Then, I accidentally came across a web page giving instructions how to
change the region of some DVD players to whatever one wants.

This doesn't help me, does it?

DVD recorder/players sold in the USA won't play PAL DVDs, will they?


** In the ebay ad, he wrote clearly that it was PAL, and he wrote it
in red!, but it didn't register.

 

[kaboom]

I accidentally bought a PAL DVD (it was shipped from Cleveland!)**

Then, I accidentally came across a web page giving instructions how to
change the region of some DVD players to whatever one wants.

This doesn't help me, does it?

DVD recorder/players sold in the USA won't play PAL DVDs, will they?

**Some of the cheaper brands will convert PAL to NTSC on the fly (as
well as have a simple remote hack to change the region).

Go here and see if any of your DVD players/recorders are on the list:

http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks

I have a Magnavox player that I picked up from Circuit City for
$35-$40 that does a great job of playing European DVDs.

 

[Phil Allison]

"WangoTango"

If you have a region free player, it won't care.

** Bollocks.

There is no such thing as PAL data.

** More bollocks.

The data is formatted as either PAL or NTSC on the disk.

Most DVD rippers will remove the region and that is that.

** Not the question at all.

My LG player doesn't seem to care what region the disk is from.

**Region code is not the issue.

The vast majority of DVD plays sold in the USA will not play a PAL formatted
dick - those that will output a PAL signal that the owner's TV set must be
able to cope with.



...... Phil

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

BEWARE!!!! you can only change the drive like 4 times and then it
stays in the last format. I'm told this is stored in the drive itself
and while I'm sure there is a way to reset this counter, I don't know
what it is. The ATI DVD player looked just fine with PAL.

The region code and video encoding are two different things. DVD's can either
be 24/1001 (NTSC film), 25 (PAL), or 30/1001 (NTSC TV) frames per second.
It's up to your DVD player to convert them to the TV set.

One of the DVD players I bought in 2000 had a PAL/multisystem switch, the
other had a software setup option (via the remote) of convert everything
to PAL, conveert everything to NTSC, or leave it in the system it was
encoded in (Multisystem TV). Every one I have purchased since has had
that option, and may of the ones sold here are also sold under other
names in the US.

Region code is a different issue. The name brand players seem to care,
the cheap Chinese ones don't. They can be easily set to any or all region
codes.

As for playing disks on the computer there are several ways to do it without
affecting the region code of the computer. DVD drives (except for a short
time around 2006 Apple drives) can read the encrypted data of a DVD disk
without decrypting it and therefore without triggering the region code
protection.

This requires the software on the computer to decrypt the disk,
something which is very common these days. You can use the freeware
players VLC or mplayer on almost anything (including Windows), or buy
(free trial) the program AnyDVD for Windows. AnyDVD is not a DVD player,
it is a device driver that intercepts the encrypted data and decrypts it
so that the disk appears to be unencrypted (have no region code at all).

You can't easily reset the region code counter in the drive, but you can
IF YOU DO IT BEFORE IT IS LOCKED, turn it off. You can find information
at www.rpc1.org.

You also have to change the region code in software for the Windows system,
there are programs to do it on the above web site.

I used to "flash" (change the microcode/firmware) on my drives to make
them region code free, as it were, but for several years I have not
bothered. The DVD players I buy here (under $30 each) are already region
code free, and I use VLC and Xine (under Linux), and AnyDVD under
Windows to play them.

You could also use one of the DVD copy programs to make an unencrypted
and therefore region free, copy of the disk.

Note that US copyright law is different than anywhere else, so you may
need to consult a lawyer if that concerns you. YMMV. Void where prohibited
by law, etc...

Geoff.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Phased Alternate Line? How interesting.

The term PAL in reference to the DVD refers to the picture encoded,
originally a PAL (or SECAM) 50 fields per second interlaced picture
with 1:4 chroma data.

The encoded signal is 25 frames per second, and still has the same chroma
information, but the chroma is stored separately in the data stream, the
way it was on a separate track on VHS/BETA video tape.

It's up to the player to figure out how to play it. To be played on a standard
TV, the frames have to be cut down to 625 lines, and split into two fields
before being played on a PAL TV. The chroma information has to be phase
encoded and added as a color subcarier.

Note that the chroma information is the same with NTSC or PAL signals, the
difference is how it is added to the signal. NTSC signals added the color
at a subcarrier frequency of 3.57 mHz, which was beyond the luminance
signals of the day.

The chroma also tended to "wander" which is why NTSC TV sets had tint controls.

PAL (which is a later standard), was modifed to 25 frames per second, with
625 lines per frame (because of the slower frame rate), with the color
carrier at 4.43 mHz. The color phase of the color subcarrier is reset every
other line, hence the name (Phase Alternating Line), which eliminates the
need for a tint control.

The standard is that NTSC derived signals are 30 frames per second, PAL are
25, except that Brazil uses 30 frames per second PAL over the air. Since there
are no such thing as 30 frames per second PAL DVD's. I expect the DVD players
converted NTSC disks to PAL signals on the way out, and upconverted 25 frames
per second PAL disks to 30 when playing them.

It's becoming a moot point, because MPEG level 4 encoding, aka DIVX and
H.263 or H.264, does not have a fixed frame rate. Except for key frames,
if the image does not change, there is no encoded data. It's up to the
playback device to repeat any intermediate frames as necessary.

Geoff.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Note that the chroma information is the same with NTSC or PAL

signals, the difference is how it is added to the signal. NTSC
signals added the color at a subcarrier frequency of 3.57 MHz,
which was beyond the luminance signals of the day.

The transmitted luminance bandwidth was always 4.2MHz, even before color.

PAL (which is a later standard), was modified to 25 frames
per second, with 625 lines per frame (because of the slower
frame rate), with the color carrier at 4.43 MHz. The color phase
of the color subcarrier is reset every other line, hence the name
(Phase Alternating Line), which eliminates the need for a tint control.

That's not quite right.

The belief that NTSC is a stupid design, and PAL corrects all the
bone-headed elements of NTSC, is untrue. The original NTSC proposal was
actually PAL (I have the copy of Electronics magazine to prove it), and NTSC
is, overall, a less-compromised design than PAL.


I still don't understand how a single data set can be /easily/ converted to
480 lines or 576 lines. Notice I said /easily/.

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker"

The belief that NTSC is a stupid design, and PAL corrects all the
bone-headed elements of NTSC, is untrue. The original NTSC proposal was
actually PAL (I have the copy of Electronics magazine to prove it), and
NTSC
is, overall, a less-compromised design than PAL.

** Wot a putrid pile of utterly absurd verbal sophistry.

The " original NTSC proposal " has got NOTHING to FUCKING do with what
NTSC turned out to be in reality.

In * REALITY * the NTSC broadcast signal is massively compromised in
comparison to a PAL signal.

But on dark, smelly PLANET " Sommerwanker"

- any fucking absurdity is held out to be true.




..... Phil

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The belief that NTSC is a stupid design, and PAL corrects all

Can't remember exactly what I was taught it being so many
years ago, but it was something like...

NTSC gives the best studio pictures.
PAL records best.
SECAM transmits best.
Or perhaps any combination of the above. ;-)

PAL was used in Europe to minimize the effects of non-constant group delay
in the European distribution system. (PAL is less-sensitive to this, at the
expense of chroma desaturation.) The US microwave system didn't have this
problem, and NTSC's designers did not see any inexpensive way to take
advantage of PAL (for such things as automatic hue correction), so it was
dropped.

NTSC also has wider color bandwidth, and the color signals match the way the
eye sees color.

NTSC and PAL are pretty much Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dee, though -- they're
fundamentally the same thing, and it's easy to convert from one to the
other. SECAM is a classic example of truly lousy design. It makes recording
and transmitting the signal simple, while requiring a more-expensive
receiver. Not good.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The belief that NTSC is a stupid design, and PAL corrects

Wot a putrid pile of utterly absurd verbal sophistry.

Would you like a detailed explanation? Or are you afraid of the truth?

In * REALITY * the NTSC broadcast signal is massively
compromised in comparison to a PAL signal.

In what ways? Be specific. (Pardon me while I go off to take a nap.)

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Put up or shut up.

PS: You might also look up the definition of "sophistry".

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

SECAM is a classic example of truly lousy design. It makes recording
and transmitting the signal simple, while requiring a more-expensive
receiver. Not good.

Considering the 1960's attitude that TV sets (and TV reception) was something
to be limited and controlled, it's wonderful.

The US never had a tax on TV sets.

Before VAT the UK (and most of the rest of the world) had a luxury tax
on TV sets, and the UK has a TV Tax. It's 142 quid per year, which is enough
to buy a decent TV set.

Here it's 650 NIS a year, more than the cost of a 21 inch CRT TV, but due to
the high taxes (besides VAT) on TV set's not quite the cost of one. You can
buy a 21 inch "full hdtv" computer monitor with VGA and DVI connectors on
it for less, but the moment you add a composite, S-video or HDMI jack*, and
or a tuner, it doubles in price.

Geoff.

* Yes I know an HDMI jack is a DVI jack with sound added, but DVI is a computer
interface therefore a business/educational device, HDMI is an
entertainment device.

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker Mental Retard "

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Put up or shut up.

** YOU have put up nothing but total bollocks.

Everything YOU ever posted is 100% PURE FUCKING BOLLOCKS.

YOU are nothing but a stinking public menace and a VILE narcissistic prick.


**** Off and DIE !!!!!!!!!!





..... Phil

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message

The DVD drive in our TV computer was perfectly happy switching to play
a PAL disc.

BEWARE!!!! you can only change the drive like 4 times and then it
stays in the last format. I'm told this is stored in the drive itself
and while I'm sure there is a way to reset this counter, I don't know
what it is. The ATI DVD player looked just fine with PAL.

You can prevent the 'four strikes and you're out' happening by running
dvd43 (freeware) in the background.
http://www.dvd43.com/

 

[mm]

The DVD drive in our TV computer was perfectly happy switching to play
a PAL disc.

Maybe I should have said that I *was* able to play the dvd in my
computer too, using Cyberlink Power DVD, and it didnt' say a peep
about format. And I have my computer connected to my tv as of about
30 days ago. But I still wanted to understand how stand-alone dvd
players work

BEWARE!!!! you can only change the drive like 4 times and then it
stays in the last format. I'm told this is stored in the drive itself
and while I'm sure there is a way to reset this counter, I don't know
what it is. The ATI DVD player looked just fine with PAL.

The url someone else provided seem to point to a way to remove the
region limitation (by putting in either a different region number, or
255 which I suppose is the union of all possible region numbers, all
bits on? I havent' done that yet, but the dvd in question is region
0 anyhow. I'm not going looking for out of region dvds, but I may
end up with one, like I ended up with this.

Thanks

 

[mm]

There's no such thing as a PAL DVD - or NTSC, for that matter. They are
just called that to identify the region they are 'allowed' for.

That seems strange because it was labeled PAL Region 0. Sorry that I
didn't say that in the first post. And aiui Region 0 means it will
play in a dvd player set for any region.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

I've seen some drives that would reset this counter if the firmware
were updated. However, it was my understanding that NTSC and PAL
playback were not constrained to the region setting.

IMHO the best versions are the ones that do not remove region code
setting, but do not remember the changes permanently. So each time you
turn on your computer, you get a fresh drive as it came from the factory.

This does not affect the operating system, which has its own counter.

To be honest, I have not done this in probably 3-4 years on a PC or
other Linux, etc drive. I've only done it on an internal Macintosh
notebook drive.

It probably did not need it as it was made before the short time Apple
disabled reading a DVD as data. It was IMHO a "trial balloon" which failed.

Geoff.

 

[Ian Jackson]

If you are going to the trouble to protect your region counter you
might as well just copy the DVD to your hard drive using software that
will make it region free. It's no less legal than not having to change
your drive's region is it?

If the region coding of your DVD doesn't match that of the DVD drive,
you can't play it or explore its contents until you have changed the
drive coding. However, as I suggested, if you run DVD43 in the
background, you should be able to play it and copy it without any
problems. [Note: As installed, by default, DVD43 runs at start-up, but
you can easily block that, and run it only when required.]

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

These players are also usually "region-free" or region-selectable.
There aren't many manufacturers of these, they tend to be
lesser-known names ("boutique" brands such as Oppo), and you won't
tend to find these players in local stores, but they *are* available.

Several years ago someone brought me one to look at for them, which
cost them $50 at Radio Shack. It was a progressive scan unit and had
the ability to switch between PAL/NTSC/Autosystem TVs. It was locked to zone
2. It had a 100-240 volt autoswitching power supply.

The exact same unit, under the same brand name was sold by several stores
online that catered to the Indian population. It was "zone free". Unlocking
codes could be found on the net with a quick search.

Geoff.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The "TV" output on an NTSC player couldn't possibly output a PAL

signal, and who is even using those outputs anymore anyway?
The digital output of a player HDMI or Component output is straight
digital data and it could care less if the disk is intended for a
particular region and it doesn't know anything about PAL or NTSC.

True, but... Wouldn't the component output have to match the scanning rate
of the particular TV it's connected to?

The question I asked still has not been answered... How would the digital
data on a DVD be formatted so that it could be output at 480 lines or 576
lines, with minimal "adjustment"?

I suppose I'll have to pull out my copy of "Video Demystified", if I can
find it.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Wanker Tango"

The "TV" output on an NTSC player couldn't possibly output a PAL signal,

** Shame that is just completely WRONG - fuckhead.

and who is even using those outputs anymore anyway?

** The majority of DVD viewers using TV sets.

The digital output of a player HDMI or Component output is straight
digital data

** Wrong again fuckwit - Component, S Video or Composite outputs are all
analogue signals.

and it could care less if the disk is intended for a
particular region and it doesn't know anything about PAL or NTSC.

** Wot an utter fucking imbecile.



.... Phil