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pad2pad vs better layout tools

P

PZ

I gotta admit, I really dig the ease of use of the Pad2Pad software,
however they have no interest in selling a non-crippled version that
outputs Gerber files.

Has anyone used anything (software that I can actually buy!) that
resembles the easy look and feel that Pad2Pad offers? I've been using
Tango DOS for an eternity and desperately need to upgrade.

Thanks!
- Paul
 
M

martin griffith

I gotta admit, I really dig the ease of use of the Pad2Pad software,
however they have no interest in selling a non-crippled version that
outputs Gerber files.

Has anyone used anything (software that I can actually buy!) that
resembles the easy look and feel that Pad2Pad offers? I've been using
Tango DOS for an eternity and desperately need to upgrade.

Thanks!
- Paul
I think you should change your email address to [email protected]


martin
 
J

John Devereux

PZ said:

:)

Your initial post does look a bit like a (thinly disguised) advert,
that we get here all the time. You know: "I was surfing the net one
day and came across this amazing new site...."

Anyway, Eagle seems to be the usual recommendation, so why not try
that?
 
P

PZ

:)

Your initial post does look a bit like a (thinly disguised) advert,
that we get here all the time. You know: "I was surfing the net one
day and came across this amazing new site...."

Anyway, Eagle seems to be the usual recommendation, so why not try
that?

Ahhh. No this is a legit inquiry. I've got a project where I'll be
doing a run of about 300 small PCB's, with more possible projects like
that in the future. I like the P2P interface, but I don't want to be
married to it because of the production costs. Thats why I'm looking
for something else.

Usually, I'm thinking, when a new CAD package is developed, they
borrow good ideas from existing, probably more expensive, packages.
I'm just wondering if the P2P software resembles something commercial
so I can just go and buy the real deal, and get the initial outlay
over with, rather than pay out the nose over time.

Thanks for the clarification.
- Paul
 
J

John Devereux

PZ said:
Ahhh. No this is a legit inquiry. I've got a project where I'll be
doing a run of about 300 small PCB's, with more possible projects like
that in the future. I like the P2P interface, but I don't want to be
married to it because of the production costs. Thats why I'm looking
for something else.

Usually, I'm thinking, when a new CAD package is developed, they
borrow good ideas from existing, probably more expensive, packages.
I'm just wondering if the P2P software resembles something commercial
so I can just go and buy the real deal, and get the initial outlay
over with, rather than pay out the nose over time.

I have not used pad2pad, but had a quick peek at the web site.

My main comment is that it does not do schematic capture (where the
initial "rats nest" of connections is automatically generated from the
schematic).

This might be OK for your needs (small boards), and will simplify the
learning curve on any new software.

I know of the free software "PCB" for linux, that can be used like
this.

I use "vutrax" for windows and linux, this can be used like this
too. It is free for small PCBs. It has a steep learning curve but
perhaps not too bad if you are not doing schematic capture.
 
D

DJ Delorie

John Devereux said:
I know of the free software "PCB" for linux, that can be used like
this.

PCB can be used either with a netlist-based rats nest, or standalone.
It allows you to create the rats nest one connection at a time, pin to
pin, then autoroute it.

Me, I always use it with gschem.
 
J

JeffM

PZ said:
Usually, I'm thinking, when a new CAD package is developed,
they borrow good ideas from existing, probably more expensive, packages.
I'm just wondering if the P2P software resembles something commercial
- Paul

It sounds like you are seeking an identical *Look and Feel*.
Let me disabuse you of this notion right now.

My experience with software has been that the
reason developers start projects of which there are already exemplars
is because they have BETTER ideas.
*Copying* someone else's idea is, IME, *not* the norm.
Sure, you'll see some *features* that are analogous
but *a direct copy* is what gets patent lawyers rabid.
*Look and feel* is usually the FIRST thing that gets personalized.

This goes to something that bugs me
about the way *using a computer* is taught:
Specific applications from a specific vendor are taught
instead of the highly portable notion of *concepts*.

In short, expect a learning curve if you are switching apps.

If you are looking for the lowest chance
of getting the carpet pulled out from under you,
*open source software* (gratis and libre in the cases I note)
has the fewest version/license shenanigans.

gEDA has already been mentioned.
("PCB" is one module of that; DJ is a developer.)

KiCAD is another open source package.
(Windoze users generally lean that way.)
 
J

Joel Kolstad

JeffM said:
Sure, you'll see some *features* that are analogous
but *a direct copy* is what gets patent lawyers rabid.

Hmm... the OpenOffice guys seem to have avoided that problem. I mean, not
everything is identical to MS Office, but the "basic" interface is *nearly*
identical.
*Look and feel* is usually the FIRST thing that gets personalized.

I think it depends on the company and who's "driving" the design. For new
start-ups, I would agree that often the idea is to take one's experience with
current tools and provide something even better, but for big companies
sometimes the design is driven largely by a rather uncreative marketing
department that knows nothing better than to just copy their competitors'
features more or less directly.
If you are looking for the lowest chance
of getting the carpet pulled out from under you,
*open source software* (gratis and libre in the cases I note)
has the fewest version/license shenanigans.

Hmm... actually, I think a lot more individuals are caught off-guard by the
"viral" nature of popular open-source licenses than those who end up being
surprised by any of the traditional commercial licenses. The biggest worry I
see commercial users of commercial software worrying about is whether or not
their supplier is going to go out of business and leave them high and dry,
whereas the biggest worries I see commercial users of open source software
worrying about is (1) whether they'll be forced to exposure what they consider
their intellectual property as soon as they touch an open-source tool and (2)
is there any guarantee of support? (Does anyone offer paid gEDA support
yet? -- most companies seem to feel much more secure in calling Cadence's
support center in India or wherever than they do in posting a question on an
open forum and taking their chances...). Note that I'm not suggesting these
worries are necessarily well-founded, just that they're out there.
 
G

Guy Macon

John said:
Your initial post does look a bit like a (thinly disguised) advert,
that we get here all the time. You know: "I was surfing the net one
day and came across this amazing new site...."

Often with a "From" email address using the same domain name...
 
P

PZ

Thanks for all of the responses, everyone. I'm currently evaluating
gEDA and KiCAD. I'm surprised that there were not many
recommendations toward the higher dollar CAD suites, but maybe that
makes sense due to their inherent complexity.

KiCAD is showing a lot of promise, thanks again!

- Paul
 
J

Joel Kolstad

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