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Osram Sylvania Dura-One A19 Lamp

V

Victor Roberts

I finally have some self-ballasted A19 electrodeless
fluorescent lamps operating in my house. These are the
Osram Sylvania Dura-One lamps.

See:

http://www.sylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003683538

The Dura-One reflector is an improvement over the GE Genura
that has been on the market for over 10 years, but the A19
is truly new.

As an ex-GE guy who worked most of his career on
electrodeless lamps of one form or another it is somewhat
sad to see the first A19 electrodeless product come from
Osram Sylvania, but they did a great job! Now we just have
to get the size of the ballast down so that it fits into the
screw base.

As far as I know the vision for an A19 electrodeless
fluorescent lamp was developed by John Anderson at the GE
Research Lab, now GE Global research, way back in about
1967. It has taken 40 years for this product to make it to
the market. Sad.

I took two of the lamps over to John's house today and he
was pleased to see that his original idea (or so I believe)
had finally become a reality.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
T

TKM

Victor Roberts said:
I finally have some self-ballasted A19 electrodeless
fluorescent lamps operating in my house. These are the
Osram Sylvania Dura-One lamps.

See:

http://www.sylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003683538

The Dura-One reflector is an improvement over the GE Genura
that has been on the market for over 10 years, but the A19
is truly new.

As an ex-GE guy who worked most of his career on
electrodeless lamps of one form or another it is somewhat
sad to see the first A19 electrodeless product come from
Osram Sylvania, but they did a great job! Now we just have
to get the size of the ballast down so that it fits into the
screw base.

As far as I know the vision for an A19 electrodeless
fluorescent lamp was developed by John Anderson at the GE
Research Lab, now GE Global research, way back in about
1967. It has taken 40 years for this product to make it to
the market. Sad.

I took two of the lamps over to John's house today and he
was pleased to see that his original idea (or so I believe)
had finally become a reality.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.
Click to expand...

I share your sentiments, Vic; but I'm glad that John Anderson was pleased to
see some competitive additions to the product line at last. I've always
viewed these small electrodeless lamps as niche products for fairly
sophisticated large users who have miles of hallways with R30 downlights or,
now, acres of bar/restaurant areas with reflector type accent, wall washers
or downlights. The relatively flat light output over a broad temperature
range says they can be used outdoors too.

Terry McGowan
 
J

JohnR66

Victor Roberts said:
I finally have some self-ballasted A19 electrodeless
fluorescent lamps operating in my house. These are the
Osram Sylvania Dura-One lamps.

See:

http://www.sylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003683538

The Dura-One reflector is an improvement over the GE Genura
that has been on the market for over 10 years, but the A19
is truly new.

As an ex-GE guy who worked most of his career on
electrodeless lamps of one form or another it is somewhat
sad to see the first A19 electrodeless product come from
Osram Sylvania, but they did a great job! Now we just have
to get the size of the ballast down so that it fits into the
screw base.

As far as I know the vision for an A19 electrodeless
fluorescent lamp was developed by John Anderson at the GE
Research Lab, now GE Global research, way back in about
1967. It has taken 40 years for this product to make it to
the market. Sad.

I took two of the lamps over to John's house today and he
was pleased to see that his original idea (or so I believe)
had finally become a reality.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
Click to expand...
Cool! I'd think the driver circuit would be similar to a standard CFL, but
with the secondary of the transformer being the ionized gas. I'd imagine the
frequency is much higher though. I can't see this remaining more expensive
than a regular CFL unless some exotic RF transistor has to be used. Many
advantages over regular CFL for sure. Without cathode fall, I'd expect
efficency to be higher.

Hopefully I'll eventually be able to get them in a 6 pack for $12 like I can
regular CFL. Sounds like they're aiming for commercial use.

How's the RF noise? Did you try various radio receivers to check
interferance?

John
 
V

Victor Roberts

Cool! I'd think the driver circuit would be similar to a standard CFL, but
with the secondary of the transformer being the ionized gas.
Click to expand...

Correct, except for the higher operating frequency.
I'd imagine the
frequency is much higher though.
Click to expand...

It operates in a special frequency band that has been set
aside for electrodeless lamps: 2.51 to 3.0 MHz. See CISPR
15 or FCC Part 18.
I can't see this remaining more expensive
than a regular CFL unless some exotic RF transistor has to be used.
Click to expand...

Well, in addition to needing faster transistors, it also
needs to have shielding around the ballast circuit,
something that is not used in conventional CFLs, and the
ferrite used in the lamp drive coil is larger than
transformer that would be used for a conventional CFL.
However, this is offset by the fact that the bulb can be
made on high speed equipment that is very similar to A-line
(GLS) equipment. So, in the end many of us believe that
costs can be competitive or even lower.
Many
advantages over regular CFL for sure. Without cathode fall, I'd expect
efficency to be higher.
Click to expand...

The ferrite losses do tend to balance the end losses in a
conventional CFL. However, fluorescent lamp technology is
"energy density limited" which means that as you try to dump
more power into a smaller volume, the efficacy goes down.
That's why higher power CFLs are physically larger. One
advantage of electrodeless operation is that it can use the
available volume more efficiently.

One other advantage of electrodeless operation is that life
is not limited by the number of on/off cycles. While I was
at GE we operated some early electrodeless lamps well over 1
million cycles with no degradation.

In the past 40 years we have learned how to operate
electrodes in modes that limit the starting damage. But
these methods, such as programmed start or programmed rapid
start, require up to 1 second to heat the electrodes if
starting damage is to be fully minimized. With
electrodeless operation you get truly instant on operation
with no degradation due to starting. This would be very
important in some frequently switched applications such as
bathrooms, hallways and stairs.
Hopefully I'll eventually be able to get them in a 6 pack for $12 like I can
regular CFL. Sounds like they're aiming for commercial use.
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But even today, high quality conventional CFLs
sell for far more than $2 each.
How's the RF noise? Did you try various radio receivers to check
interferance?
Click to expand...

Not yet.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
J

JohnR66

Victor Roberts said:
Correct, except for the higher operating frequency.


It operates in a special frequency band that has been set
aside for electrodeless lamps: 2.51 to 3.0 MHz. See CISPR
15 or FCC Part 18.


Well, in addition to needing faster transistors, it also
needs to have shielding around the ballast circuit,
something that is not used in conventional CFLs, and the
ferrite used in the lamp drive coil is larger than
transformer that would be used for a conventional CFL.
However, this is offset by the fact that the bulb can be
made on high speed equipment that is very similar to A-line
(GLS) equipment. So, in the end many of us believe that
costs can be competitive or even lower.


The ferrite losses do tend to balance the end losses in a
conventional CFL. However, fluorescent lamp technology is
"energy density limited" which means that as you try to dump
more power into a smaller volume, the efficacy goes down.
That's why higher power CFLs are physically larger. One
advantage of electrodeless operation is that it can use the
available volume more efficiently.

One other advantage of electrodeless operation is that life
is not limited by the number of on/off cycles. While I was
at GE we operated some early electrodeless lamps well over 1
million cycles with no degradation.

In the past 40 years we have learned how to operate
electrodes in modes that limit the starting damage. But
these methods, such as programmed start or programmed rapid
start, require up to 1 second to heat the electrodes if
starting damage is to be fully minimized. With
electrodeless operation you get truly instant on operation
with no degradation due to starting. This would be very
important in some frequently switched applications such as
bathrooms, hallways and stairs.


Perhaps. But even today, high quality conventional CFLs
sell for far more than $2 each.


Not yet.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
Click to expand...
Thank you for keeping an interested layman knowledgeable!
I can't wait to get my hands on one of these lamps. Hopefully they show up
in my neck of the woods soon.

I have to disagree with you on one point: The quality of cheap CFLs I've
been using have been flawless. These are the 13 to 14 watt mini spiral CFLs.
I have one that is rated for 6,000 hours still operates after 3 years of
continuous duty. Many have surpassed rated life yet none have failed. Single
packaged, these cost $4-6, but can be bought for as low as 2$ per lamp in a
multi-pack. Rated output is equales a 60w standard incandescent and lumen
mantenance is very good.

I would agree that one should avoid the single packaged lamp that sell for
$2 in the dollar store. They are not so good.

John
 
V

Victor Roberts

But.... The most important question.... Where can we buy them?
Click to expand...

If you Google "Dura-One A19" you will find a few sources,
but at this early date no one I have found is selling less
than 1 case of 6 lamps. (Many places sell individual
Dura-One reflector lamps, since they have been available
longer.) The lowest price I could find for a case of 6
Dura-One A19 lamps was about $98 at GoodMart.

http://www.goodmart.com/products/835231.htm

Note that the lamps are a bit longer than a convention A19
so they may not fit in all A19 fixtures. You can blame this
on the ballast if you like :)

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
B

Bob

Can you look at one of them and get the FCC ID off of it. I wanted to look
it up and see what frequency they operate at - I have a hard time believing
it's the normal ~50 KHz given that they appear to be radiating through the
gas mix, rather than setting up an arc through it. I don't seen anything
really recent under Osram / Sylvania.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Can you look at one of them and get the FCC ID off of it. I wanted to look
it up and see what frequency they operate at - I have a hard time believing
it's the normal ~50 KHz given that they appear to be radiating through the
gas mix, rather than setting up an arc through it. I don't seen anything
really recent under Osram / Sylvania.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean by "radiating through" instead of
"setting up an arc." The time varying magnetic field in the
ferrite core creates an electric field that drives the
mercury-rare gas discharge. Other than the manner in which
the electrical power is transmitted from the ballast to the
discharge, the lamp operates like any other fluorescent
lamp.

Lamps of this type normally operated near 2.65 MHz. The
band set aside for electrodeless lamps in CISPR 15 and FCC
Part 18 is 2.51 to 3.0 MHz. I'm sure this was discussed
earlier in this thread.

The FCC ID is not clearly marked. The lamp has both an FCC
and UL logo. The following is printed below the two logos:
"Listed 7B11." However, this does not look like a current
FCC ID number.

The bulb itself has the following code printed upside down:

HO7 13 18 1459

The second character may be either an O or an 0.

This may be only a date code or perhaps it is the FCC ID,
but it does not return any results at fcc.gov.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
C

Chris Carlen

Victor said:
I finally have some self-ballasted A19 electrodeless
fluorescent lamps operating in my house. These are the
Osram Sylvania Dura-One lamps.

See:

http://www.sylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003683538

The Dura-One reflector is an improvement over the GE Genura
that has been on the market for over 10 years, but the A19
is truly new.

As an ex-GE guy who worked most of his career on
electrodeless lamps of one form or another it is somewhat
sad to see the first A19 electrodeless product come from
Osram Sylvania, but they did a great job! Now we just have
to get the size of the ballast down so that it fits into the
screw base.

As far as I know the vision for an A19 electrodeless
fluorescent lamp was developed by John Anderson at the GE
Research Lab, now GE Global research, way back in about
1967. It has taken 40 years for this product to make it to
the market. Sad.

I took two of the lamps over to John's house today and he
was pleased to see that his original idea (or so I believe)
had finally become a reality.
Click to expand...


Oh joy, in sickly pinkish-yellow 2700K. I will love to buy some of
these if they come out in 3500K or 4200K.

Really cool tech. though. Hats off to those who developed this.



--
Good day!

________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
[email protected]
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
"BOGUS" from email address to reply.
 
C

Chris Carlen

Victor said:
If you Google "Dura-One A19" you will find a few sources,
but at this early date no one I have found is selling less
than 1 case of 6 lamps. (Many places sell individual
Dura-One reflector lamps, since they have been available
longer.) The lowest price I could find for a case of 6
Dura-One A19 lamps was about $98 at GoodMart.

http://www.goodmart.com/products/835231.htm

Note that the lamps are a bit longer than a convention A19
so they may not fit in all A19 fixtures. You can blame this
on the ballast if you like :)
Click to expand...


I think you can buy singles here:

http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4595_11642

--
Good day!

________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
[email protected]
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
"BOGUS" from email address to reply.
 
J

JohnR66

Chris Carlen said:
I think you can buy singles here:

http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4595_11642

--
Good day!

________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
[email protected]
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
"BOGUS" from email address to reply.
Click to expand...

Good god! That's expensive. Consumers will never buy them at this price!
Let's hope they can get the price down while keeping quality high.
John
 
V

Victor Roberts

C

Chris Carlen

Victor said:
The link you gave is for the R30 version, not the A19.
Click to expand...

Oops.


--
Good day!

________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
[email protected]
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
"BOGUS" from email address to reply.
 
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