Old Electrical Outlet

[redbrickhat]

I live in an old building (1920s) in New York City.


I recently opened up 2 electrical outlets that had been covered up for
at least 30 years. Behind the outlets were 2 wires covered in cloth
braid. At first I thought this type of cabling might be K&T, but a
voltage test showed that the box was grounded, so I guess the wiring is
metal conduit or armored cable.


What is the composition of the cloth braid of these old cables? The
cloth braid looked and felt like cotton, but could it have been
asbestos or another substance?




Thank you.

 

[Terry]

I live in an old building (1920s) in New York City.


I recently opened up 2 electrical outlets that had been covered up for
at least 30 years. Behind the outlets were 2 wires covered in cloth
braid. At first I thought this type of cabling might be K&T, but a
voltage test showed that the box was grounded, so I guess the wiring is
metal conduit or armored cable.


What is the composition of the cloth braid of these old cables? The
cloth braid looked and felt like cotton, but could it have been
asbestos or another substance?

The only time I ran into insulation that you describe, it was very
brittle. If you plain to continue using it, you should not disturb it
anymore than you have to.

 

[Tom Biasi]

I live in an old building (1920s) in New York City.


I recently opened up 2 electrical outlets that had been covered up for
at least 30 years. Behind the outlets were 2 wires covered in cloth
braid. At first I thought this type of cabling might be K&T, but a
voltage test showed that the box was grounded, so I guess the wiring is
metal conduit or armored cable.


What is the composition of the cloth braid of these old cables? The
cloth braid looked and felt like cotton, but could it have been
asbestos or another substance?




Thank you.

Its called loom wire. Most of it in the twenties used rubber also. It will
be very brittle and next to impossible to work with. The general rule is
"You touch it, you replace it."

Tom

 

[[email protected]]

I live in an old building (1920s) in New York City.

I recently opened up 2 electrical outlets that had been covered up for
at least 30 years. Behind the outlets were 2 wires covered in cloth
braid. At first I thought this type of cabling might be K&T, but a
voltage test showed that the box was grounded, so I guess the wiring is
metal conduit or armored cable.

What is the composition of the cloth braid of these old cables? The
cloth braid looked and felt like cotton, but could it have been
asbestos or another substance?

Thank you.

 

[RBM]

Sometimes they ran a type of cloth covered cable inside of black pipe, and
early steel cable like "Sprague" had a waxy cloth sheath over the
conductors. The conductors themselves are probably covered with rubber and
more cloth, and as the others have said, move them as little as you can

 

[[email protected]]

you sure its grounded? some idiot might have connected box to
neutral....... can you see a ground wire?

 

[RBM]

If it's connected to a steel conduit or cable it doesn't require a "ground
wire" to be grounded

 

[Noway2]

I live in an old building (1920s) in New York City.


I recently opened up 2 electrical outlets that had been covered up for
at least 30 years. Behind the outlets were 2 wires covered in cloth
braid. At first I thought this type of cabling might be K&T, but a
voltage test showed that the box was grounded, so I guess the wiring is
metal conduit or armored cable.


What is the composition of the cloth braid of these old cables? The
cloth braid looked and felt like cotton, but could it have been
asbestos or another substance?




Thank you.

Sounds that ye old Knob and Tube stuff. I used to own a house that was
full of it. It looked like 18 gauge black cloth or paper wrapped
wires. The wires were run through ceramic tubes where they went
through a stud or joist and were suspended off of the wood surfaces
with ceramic blocks that were nailed down.

 

[[email protected]]

Sounds that ye old Knob and Tube stuff. I used to own a house that was
full of it. It looked like 18 gauge black cloth or paper wrapped
wires. The wires were run through ceramic tubes where they went
through a stud or joist and were suspended off of the wood surfaces
with ceramic blocks that were nailed down.

Yeah my hunch too, I asked about grounding since I helped a friend.
Turned out she had K&T and it APPEARED grounded

The trouble was a former owner connected grounds and neutrals together.
We found this opening a wall after a fire.On the outside a nice box
with 3 prong outlet. Buried in wall K&T grounds and neutrals tied
together.

The homes wiring was a patchwork quilt of bad stuff it was all replaced.

 

[John O'Flaherty]

I live in an old building (1920s) in New York City.


I recently opened up 2 electrical outlets that had been covered up for
at least 30 years. Behind the outlets were 2 wires covered in cloth
braid. At first I thought this type of cabling might be K&T, but a
voltage test showed that the box was grounded, so I guess the wiring is
metal conduit or armored cable.


What is the composition of the cloth braid of these old cables? The
cloth braid looked and felt like cotton, but could it have been
asbestos or another substance?

Fray out some of the cloth. Hold a match or lighter under it. If it
just burns to ash, it's probably cotton. If it burns and melts to a
gooey mess, it's probably plastic. If it melts to a little glob, it's
probably fiberglass. If it gets orange or white hot without melting,
it's probably asbestos.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

What is the composition of the cloth braid of these old cables? The
cloth braid looked and felt like cotton, but could it have been
asbestos or another substance?

No. Rubber and cloth. By now it will probably have deteriorated and won't
take a small movement. You need to replace it with modern plastic wire if
you have permission.

 

[Marilyn & Bob]

The OP said that he lives in New York City where BX (armored cable) was
required in the 1920s (and still is today). Cloth covered wires with
armored sheathing is standard in older building in NYC. This is not knob
and tube. It is BX and it is grounded (although some may question whether
the armor provides an adequate ground.

 

[redbrickhat]

The OP said that he lives in New York City where BX (armored cable) was
required in the 1920s (and still is today). Cloth covered wires with
armored sheathing is standard in older building in NYC. This is not knob
and tube. It is BX and it is grounded (although some may question whether
the armor provides an adequate ground.

So if the cabling is 2-wire BX and the cloth braid is not asbestos,
would it be safe to cut some of the old braid off?


Thanks

 

[Steve Barker LT]

It's safe to cut it even if it is asbestos. Just don't snort it up your
nose or eat it for 20 years in a row.

 

[RBM]

or just connect your fixtures to it, close it up and be done with it!!!

 

[redbrickhat]

It's safe to cut it even if it is asbestos. Just don't snort it up your
nose or eat it for 20 years in a row.

I ask the question because I might have to remove a large portion of
the braided cloth to add a new receptacle.

So: did the old-style BX cables for residential apartments generally
use cotton braided cloth around their wires?

Was asbestos braided cloth used mainly for high-temperature
applications?


Thanks.

 

[RBM]

I think the point is that asbestos is not cyanide, You're not going to die
from occasional incidental contact

 

[Steve Barker LT]

The best thing to do is just do what you have to do. And quit worrying
about the freakin asbestos. Like I said, you'd have to breathe the dust for
20 years before you MIGHT display symptoms 20 years after that.

 

[redbrickhat]

It's safe to cut it even if it is asbestos. Just don't snort it up your
nose or eat it for 20 years in a row.

I ask the question because I might have to cut a large amount of the
cloth braid to add a new receptacle.

So: did the old-style BX cables for residential homes generally use
cotton braided cloth around the wires?

Was asbestos braided cloth used only for high temperature applications?


Thanks.

 

[Steve Barker LT]

I can't speak for the BX, but the old cloth romex I'm pulling out of my
house appears to have a wrap of asbestos in it. After burning it (to
recycle the copper) in a very hot fire, there is what appears to be a white
ribbon spiraled around the copper. I can only assume it's asbestos put
there for pulling strength.