Maker Pro
Maker Pro

New Improved +/-45V PSU

H

Harry D

Here is my 2W +/-45V PSU

http://kvisit.com/S_KuKAw

See the MSD7342-224ml for coupled inductor.
The IRF9640 is overkill but only SC3 model available.
The control loop should be pretty straight forward.
What is the input voltage range desired?

I would copy in that neat net + wiring list that you guys use but do not know how. Just learning LTSPICE.

Cheers, Harry
 
J

John K

Harry D said:
Here is my 2W +/-45V PSU

http://kvisit.com/S_KuKAw

See the MSD7342-224ml for coupled inductor.
The IRF9640 is overkill but only SC3 model available.
The control loop should be pretty straight forward.
What is the input voltage range desired?

I would copy in that neat net + wiring list that you guys use but do
not know how. Just learning LTSPICE.

Cheers, Harry

Harry, thanks for posting. You are doing great.

To post your ASC file, you can put it on the web site as you have done.

There is also an option on the web site to provide a direct download
link. For example, your ASC file is at

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/6460924/fly-hob-hd-asc-2k?da=y

You can also load the ASC file into an ascii editor and paste it into
your newsgroup client. This creates the problem of line wrap when you
have anything that extends past column 70 or so. It also creates havoc
with some news clients that wish to change symbols to hex. For example,
the equal sign, "=", becomes "=3D". This creates problems in LTspice
since it cannot deciper lines like

SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=3D0.02 Rpar=3D5000

Some newsgroups allow you to post an ASC file as an attachment. This is
convenient since the newsreader usually saves the attachment to a folder.
This eliminates the problem of wrapping long lines in the newsreader.

There are a number of ways of conveying your circuit to the newsgroup.
Try to pick one that causes the least amount of problems for your
readers.

There is a bit of overshoot in your circuit on startup. You might
consider lowering the on time of the IRF9640. You can set V2 to around
50% duty cycle. Try

PULSE(0 10 10N 10N 10N 5U 10U)

It needs just a tad more on time to come up exactly on the target
voltage. However, this will change with the load.

JK
 
H

Harry Dellamano

John K said:
Harry, thanks for posting. You are doing great.

To post your ASC file, you can put it on the web site as you have done.

There is also an option on the web site to provide a direct download
link. For example, your ASC file is at

Ok, so here is my *.asc file:

Version 4
SHEET 1 1108 900
WIRE -816 -256 -1200 -256
WIRE -576 -256 -816 -256
WIRE -80 -256 -576 -256
WIRE -1632 -240 -1680 -240
WIRE -1504 -240 -1552 -240
WIRE -1488 -240 -1504 -240
WIRE -576 -192 -576 -256
WIRE -816 -176 -816 -256
WIRE -864 -160 -944 -160
WIRE -1856 -128 -1952 -128
WIRE -1680 -128 -1680 -240
WIRE -1456 -128 -1680 -128
WIRE -80 -128 -80 -256
WIRE -944 -112 -944 -160
WIRE -256 -112 -288 -112
WIRE -128 -112 -176 -112
WIRE -1200 -80 -1200 -256
WIRE -1952 -64 -1952 -128
WIRE -576 -48 -576 -112
WIRE -1456 -16 -1456 -128
WIRE -1360 -16 -1456 -16
WIRE -992 16 -1040 16
WIRE -864 16 -864 -112
WIRE -864 16 -992 16
WIRE -816 16 -816 -96
WIRE -688 16 -816 16
WIRE -288 16 -288 -112
WIRE -288 16 -688 16
WIRE -1680 48 -1680 -128
WIRE -1632 48 -1680 48
WIRE -1520 48 -1568 48
WIRE -1408 48 -1440 48
WIRE -1360 48 -1408 48
WIRE -1680 80 -1680 48
WIRE -768 96 -816 96
WIRE -752 96 -768 96
WIRE -432 96 -464 96
WIRE -320 96 -368 96
WIRE -192 96 -240 96
WIRE -1440 112 -1472 112
WIRE -1376 112 -1440 112
WIRE -1360 112 -1376 112
WIRE -80 112 -80 -32
WIRE -1472 128 -1472 112
WIRE -816 128 -816 96
WIRE -1024 144 -1040 144
WIRE -976 144 -1024 144
WIRE -912 144 -976 144
WIRE -864 144 -864 16
WIRE -1360 176 -1392 176
WIRE -464 208 -464 96
WIRE -464 208 -576 208
WIRE -352 208 -464 208
WIRE -192 208 -192 96
WIRE -192 208 -288 208
WIRE -80 208 -80 112
WIRE 32 208 -80 208
WIRE 192 208 96 208
WIRE 288 208 192 208
WIRE -1472 224 -1472 208
WIRE -1392 224 -1392 176
WIRE -1392 224 -1472 224
WIRE -1472 240 -1472 224
WIRE -576 240 -576 208
WIRE -192 240 -192 208
WIRE -80 240 -80 208
WIRE 288 240 288 208
WIRE -464 256 -464 208
WIRE 192 256 192 208
WIRE -912 272 -912 144
WIRE -1200 288 -1200 240
WIRE -816 288 -816 224
WIRE -736 288 -816 288
WIRE -816 352 -816 288
WIRE -816 352 -864 352
WIRE -576 368 -576 320
WIRE -464 368 -464 320
WIRE -192 368 -192 320
WIRE -80 368 -80 320
WIRE 192 368 192 320
WIRE 288 368 288 320
WIRE -1376 384 -1376 112
WIRE -1312 384 -1376 384
WIRE -1024 384 -1024 144
WIRE -1024 384 -1232 384
WIRE -1024 400 -1024 384
FLAG -576 -48 0
FLAG -80 368 0
FLAG 192 368 0
FLAG -192 368 0
FLAG -464 368 0
FLAG -576 368 0
FLAG 288 368 0
FLAG -80 112 VS
FLAG 288 208 NO
FLAG -576 208 PO
FLAG -1200 288 0
FLAG -992 16 DV
FLAG -688 16 DN
FLAG -1472 304 0
FLAG -1472 224 FR
FLAG -736 368 0
FLAG -1024 464 0
FLAG -912 368 0
FLAG -1440 112 VR
FLAG -768 96 VR
FLAG -976 144 IS
FLAG -944 -112 0
FLAG -1680 160 0
FLAG -1504 -240 PO
FLAG -1408 48 CP
FLAG -1952 16 0
FLAG -1792 -128 CP
SYMBOL ind2 -96 224 R0
WINDOW 0 50 51 Left 2
WINDOW 3 60 86 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 220µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=1.72
SYMBOL cap -480 256 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMBOL schottky 96 224 M270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 -3 -7 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value MBRS1100
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL voltage -576 -208 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 16
SYMBOL schottky -288 224 M270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value MBRS1100
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL cap 208 320 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C6
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMBOL res -592 224 R0
WINDOW 3 25 4 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 2.2K
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMBOL res 272 224 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 2.2K
SYMBOL res -160 -128 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 20
SYMBOL ind2 -208 336 M180
WINDOW 0 36 80 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L2
SYMATTR Value 220µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=1.72
SYMBOL pmos -128 -32 M180
SYMATTR InstName M2
SYMATTR Value IRF9640
SYMBOL e -816 -192 R0
SYMATTR InstName E1
SYMATTR Value -1
SYMBOL res -1488 112 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 30K
SYMBOL cap -1488 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 470p
SYMBOL res -1216 368 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 30K
SYMBOL cap -1040 400 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 1n
SYMBOL pmos -864 224 M180
SYMATTR InstName M1
SYMATTR Value BSS84
SYMBOL nmos -864 272 M0
SYMATTR InstName M3
SYMATTR Value 2N7002
SYMBOL res -752 272 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 2K
SYMBOL res -1696 64 R0
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 10K
SYMBOL res -1536 -256 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 170K
SYMBOL cap -1568 32 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res -1424 32 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value 68K
SYMBOL PowerProducts\\LT1242 -1200 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMBOL voltage -1952 -80 R0
WINDOW 3 -49 325 Left 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR Value PULSE(-1.0 5 10N 5M 10M 10M 30M)
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMBOL diode -1792 -144 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMBOL res -224 80 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 37 48 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 220
SYMBOL cap -368 80 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 120p
TEXT -912 -352 Left 2 !.tran 0 4MU 0 100N
TEXT -216 424 Left 2 !K L1 L2 0.9965
TEXT -216 472 Left 2 ;MSD7342-224


Aah, will that work for everyone?

Thanks, harry
 
K

Klaus Kragelund

This is fun. Only one inductor and a home-made switcher circuit. Peak current

limit and sort of constant off-time.



Version 4

SHEET 1 1180 680

WIRE 368 -272 320 -272
[snip]

Very nice indeed. I just plugged it into PSpice, reduced the output caps to 100nF and induced a step response. It seems quite stable, allthough I have not dug very deep

Increasing the value of the inductor L1 to 150uH does introduce ringing with C4 and C7 which makes is unstable during startup and transients due to the ringing sense current in R1.

Regards

Klaus
 
K

Klaus Kragelund

This is fun. Only one inductor and a home-made switcher circuit. Peak current

limit and sort of constant off-time.



Version 4

SHEET 1 1180 680

WIRE 368 -272 320 -272

[snip]



Very nice indeed. I just plugged it into PSpice, reduced the output caps to 100nF and induced a step response. It seems quite stable, allthough I have not dug very deep



Increasing the value of the inductor L1 to 150uH does introduce ringing with C4 and C7 which makes is unstable during startup and transients due to the ringing sense current in R1.

That is, increasing the inductor to 150uH keeping all other components the same values as from the ASC posted by Larkin makes it unstable...

Cheers

Klaus
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Isn't that the circuit Hobbs posted last week?

...Jim Thompson

No, mine was a buck-boost, whereas John has posted a few capacitively
coupled boosts, of which this is one.

The nice thing about doing it his way is that you get some
cross-regulation, because one polarity adjusts the voltage swing on the
inductor, whereas I get the full input voltage variation impressed on
the HV and have to get rid of it afterwards.

The efficiency is comparatively poor for some reason that I haven't
looked into very deeply--if you filter the current draw from V1 using a
100 milliohm/1 millifarad RC lowpass to get rid of the spikes, and compute

(V(VP)*I(R5)+V(VN)*I(R6))/(-16*I(V1)), it never gets above about 0.3.

The nice thing about doing it my way is that you only need one switching
regulator instead of two (one inverter and one AC-coupled boost), and
that it's simpler and more efficient.

The OP's circuit also has the nice cross-regulation feature, but needs a
lot of parts, including a $2.50 regulator chip, and a transformer that
would need to be a toroid to make me happy, at least at this stage of my
education in how to combine SMPSes with ultrasensitive instruments.

Defeating the current-sense like that seems a bit counterproductive as well.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
H

Harry Dellamano

John Larkin said:
I like these schmitt-trigger switchers. You get to turn all the knobs
yourself.
Here is Jl's PSU suitable for production. Note the rise and fall times have
been soften.


Version 4
SHEET 1 1180 680
WIRE 368 -272 320 -272
WIRE 496 -272 432 -272
WIRE 560 -272 496 -272
WIRE 832 -272 624 -272
WIRE 928 -272 832 -272
WIRE 992 -272 928 -272
WIRE 992 -240 992 -272
WIRE 832 -224 832 -272
WIRE 496 -208 496 -272
WIRE 16 -160 -80 -160
WIRE 128 -160 16 -160
WIRE 272 -160 208 -160
WIRE 320 -160 320 -272
WIRE 320 -160 272 -160
WIRE 16 -128 16 -160
WIRE 496 -112 496 -144
WIRE 832 -112 832 -160
WIRE 992 -112 992 -160
WIRE 320 -32 320 -160
WIRE 368 -32 320 -32
WIRE 496 -32 432 -32
WIRE 576 -32 496 -32
WIRE 832 -32 640 -32
WIRE 928 -32 832 -32
WIRE 992 -32 928 -32
WIRE 16 -16 16 -48
WIRE 496 0 496 -32
WIRE 992 0 992 -32
WIRE -528 16 -544 16
WIRE -512 16 -528 16
WIRE 832 16 832 -32
WIRE -544 48 -544 16
WIRE -80 80 -80 -160
WIRE 320 96 320 -32
WIRE 496 112 496 64
WIRE 832 128 832 80
WIRE 992 128 992 80
WIRE -240 144 -480 144
WIRE 112 176 80 176
WIRE 160 176 112 176
WIRE 272 176 240 176
WIRE -544 208 -544 128
WIRE -480 208 -480 144
WIRE -480 208 -544 208
WIRE -384 208 -416 208
WIRE -272 208 -304 208
WIRE -240 208 -272 208
WIRE -544 272 -544 208
WIRE -240 272 -400 272
WIRE -400 288 -400 272
WIRE 176 304 80 304
WIRE 224 304 176 304
WIRE 320 304 320 192
WIRE 320 304 304 304
WIRE 368 304 320 304
WIRE 528 304 448 304
WIRE -240 336 -272 336
WIRE -400 384 -400 368
WIRE -304 384 -400 384
WIRE -272 384 -272 336
WIRE -272 384 -304 384
WIRE 176 384 176 304
WIRE 528 384 528 304
WIRE -400 400 -400 384
WIRE -272 432 -272 384
WIRE 112 496 112 176
WIRE 112 496 -208 496
WIRE -208 512 -208 496
WIRE -208 512 -224 512
FLAG 528 384 0
FLAG -80 400 0
FLAG 832 128 0
FLAG 16 -16 0
FLAG 496 112 0
FLAG 832 -112 0
FLAG 496 -112 0
FLAG 992 -112 0
FLAG 992 128 0
FLAG 928 -32 VP
FLAG 928 -272 VN
FLAG 272 -160 D
FLAG -544 352 0
FLAG -528 16 VP
FLAG 176 448 0
FLAG -400 464 0
FLAG -272 528 0
FLAG 112 176 VG
FLAG 320 304 IS
FLAG -304 384 RT
FLAG -272 208 CP
SYMBOL nmos 272 96 R0
WINDOW 0 101 34 Left 2
WINDOW 3 76 70 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName M1
SYMATTR Value FDS3570
SYMBOL res 352 320 R270
WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 0.7
SYMBOL schottky 576 -16 R270
WINDOW 0 -40 31 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 -41 34 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value BAT46WJ
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL ind2 112 -144 R270
WINDOW 0 94 58 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 81 58 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 500µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL cap 816 16 R0
WINDOW 0 59 31 Left 2
WINDOW 3 55 65 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMBOL res 320 288 R90
WINDOW 0 0 78 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 38 62 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 1K
SYMBOL voltage 16 -144 R0
WINDOW 0 51 45 Left 2
WINDOW 3 54 81 Left 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 16
SYMBOL schottky 512 64 R180
WINDOW 0 66 33 Left 2
WINDOW 3 41 -7 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value BAT46WJ
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL cap 432 -48 R90
WINDOW 0 -52 29 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 -42 27 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 10µ
SYMBOL schottky 624 -288 R90
WINDOW 0 65 -24 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 67 -26 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D6
SYMATTR Value BAT46WJ
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL cap 816 -224 R0
WINDOW 0 62 24 Left 2
WINDOW 3 58 57 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C6
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMBOL cap 432 -288 R90
WINDOW 0 72 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 81 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C7
SYMATTR Value 10µ
SYMBOL schottky 480 -208 R0
WINDOW 0 84 51 Left 2
WINDOW 3 59 85 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D7
SYMATTR Value BAT46WJ
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL res 976 -256 R0
WINDOW 0 62 50 Left 2
WINDOW 3 62 81 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 2K
SYMBOL res 976 -16 R0
WINDOW 0 61 41 Left 2
WINDOW 3 61 75 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 2K
SYMBOL res 256 160 R90
WINDOW 0 -44 55 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 -38 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 22
SYMBOL PowerProducts\\LT1242 -80 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMBOL res -288 192 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 68K
SYMBOL cap -416 192 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 10n
SYMBOL res -560 256 R0
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 10K
SYMBOL res -560 32 R0
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value 170K
SYMBOL cap 160 384 R0
WINDOW 3 46 44 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 1n
SYMBOL cap -416 400 R0
SYMATTR InstName C8
SYMATTR Value 510p
SYMBOL res -416 272 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 10K
SYMBOL nmos -224 432 M0
SYMATTR InstName M2
SYMATTR Value 2N7002
TEXT 792 320 Left 2 !.tran 2m uic
TEXT 696 384 Left 2 ;Bipolar Boost JL July 2013
TEXT 696 416 Left 2 ;SOFT SWITCHED HD 22/JLY/13

Cheers, Harry
 
H

Harry Dellamano

John Larkin said:
Why not? I've done schmitt switchers several times, and have a new one
in the oven; should be running next week. The breadboard works fine.

Breadboard:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/BB_Boost1.JPG

PCB:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/PCBs/D14.jpg

The schmitt boost converter occupies about half of this board.

I've had enough weird behavior with complicated LTC switchers that I'd
rather roll my own.


It's easily changed. All you need to do is apply money and buy a
bigger inductor.


Yes, if you don't mind the inrush current.

C1,6 need be <1.0uF

M1 is only dissipating about 140 mw, and it's still not optimized. LT
Spice has only a limited selection of mosfets, most too big.
So what magic Smitt-Trigger IC do you use that operates in this unit over
temp and lot to lot?
I admit that I use lots of ST but not in apps. like this. Looks like
something JF would use with his 555s.

Harry
 
G

Glenn

On 23/07/13 02.53, Harry Dellamano wrote:
....

This series replaced UC384x "long" ago:

ucc3802 til 100% 0,5mA
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/ucc3802.html
2,1 eu
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=296-11464-5-ND
->ucc3803 til 100% 0,5mA 2,1 eu
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=296-11466-5-ND
->ucc3800 til 100% 0,5mA 2,1 eu
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=296-11457-5-ND

Also these - but they are also outdated:
(
UCC38C43
MIC38HC43
MIC38HC43-1
MIC38C44
SG3843
KA3843
ISL8843
TL3843
ISL8843
)

/Glenn
 
G

Glenn

On 23/07/13 02.53, Harry Dellamano wrote:
....

This series replaced UC384x "long" ago:

ucc3802 til 100% 0,5mA
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/ucc3802.html
....
Quote: "...
Features
100µA Typical Starting Supply Current
500µA Typical Operating Supply Current
Operation to 1 MHz
Internal Soft Start
Internal Fault Soft Start
Internal Leading-Edge Blanking of the Current Sense Signal
1 Amp Totem-Pole Output
70ns Typical Response from Current-Sense to Gate Drive Output
1.5% Tolerance Voltage Reference
Same Pinout as UC3842 and UC3842A
...."

You can not ask for more?

Glenn
 
J

John Devereux

Glenn said:
...
Quote: "...
Features
100µA Typical Starting Supply Current
500µA Typical Operating Supply Current
Operation to 1 MHz
Internal Soft Start
Internal Fault Soft Start
Internal Leading-Edge Blanking of the Current Sense Signal
1 Amp Totem-Pole Output
70ns Typical Response from Current-Sense to Gate Drive Output
1.5% Tolerance Voltage Reference
Same Pinout as UC3842 and UC3842A
..."

You can not ask for more?

Ah... how about "not being 5x the price?" :)
 
H

Harry Dellamano

Phil Hobbs said:
All true. However, when you're trying to figure out where the bodies are
buried, inquiring minds want to know. ;)

Cheers

Phil
You folks are correct, it is not the cost of the parts but design time,
risk, heat and EMI just to name a few. I believe that you are taking a risk
in your design without protection features that are normally needed. Such as
under voltage shutdown and poor short circuit protection. If the 16V supply
come up low or if the output is shorted you have a good chance of letting
the smoke out. In normal operation your design has a large charge dumping
spike at R1 at turn on. This screams for a 1nF cap at Q1-B to ground to
mitigate the spike but will greatly effect short circuit protection. Needs
lots of tweaking.
I used the LT1242 only because it was the only model available in LTSpice.
You are correct about LT controllers. They have too many hooks and features,
to allow easy integration. Designers using LT parts normally copy the
published designs to the letter and not think on their own. LT never
learned that a great IC controller has less than 10 pins.
If I were task with this design I would probably look at the LM3475
Hysteretic controller from TI. Your design works because this is a simple
requirement but most PSU are not this simple and you need to be conformable
with IC controllers.

Highest regards, Harry
 
H

Harry Dellamano

John Larkin said:
The thing I posted was just a concept, a starting point for playing
with. Like I said, I had to run to Safeway.

I did a production board of something similar, a schmitt ac-coupled
boost converter. It uses a comparator for the source current sensing
and it does have an RC in that path. The breadboard works fine and I
haven't blown up a single IC so far. The first PCB will be here on
Friday.

This circuit doesn't mind a shorted load, because the mosfet peak
current thing always works.

Here's a schmitt-based voltage flipper. It's actually used on a couple
of products.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Circuits/Power/DC_DC2.jpg



There *is* a schmitt trigger model too!

Your sketch is a good case on point. If you replace the LM5112 with a
LTC3801 (6 pins) with your feedback scheme, you now have a solid PSU and
not a kludge. I have used that topology often, with an "off the shelf"
coupled shielded inductor, to get tracking +/-V outputs.
Safeway?? Have you ever eaten at "Brown Sugar" in Oakland. We should meet
there some time an have grits an eggs.

Cheers, Harry
 
K

Klaus Kragelund

Why would you call a perfectly fine, works-as-designed,

cute-as-a-button production circuit a kluge? Because it doesn't cost

$3 and isn't blessed by some reference design?



Besides, the LTC3801 isn't good to 12 volts. Would it even work as an

inverter?



I have used that topology often, with an "off the shelf"






The food in San Francisco is fabulous, except for two glaring

exceptions: no decent Cajun/Creole, and no good BBQ. Oakland has both.



Sure, any time. I love grits. Or come to SF and I'll give you the

plant tour and take you to Zuni. They have grits, except that they

call it polenta and charge 4 times as much.



Zuni is where I discovered cranberry beans.



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Food/Cranberry1.jpg

We should all meet at some time. I actually have met Joerg, great guy with his heart the right place (give my regards to your wife, if you read this)

But, we would need bouncers, to keep JT and JL apart, although it seems to be better the last couple of days ;-)

Cheers

Klaus
 
B

Bill Sloman

There's nothing manic-depressive about calling you the coarse asshole that you
are. And nothing wrong with defending my wife; she's worth a hundred of you.

A curiously quantitative assessment from somebody who can write dozens of lines on electronics without getting closer to numbers than saying that something didn't include a $3 part.

Also a bit silly. Jim Thompson's net social worth may well be negative - anybody who publicly speculates about shooting his neighbours after the country falls apart can't be considered as an asset to his neighbourhood - and if John Larkin's wife worth was a 100 times more negative than Jim Thompson's it would be a very negative assessment.
 
M

mroberds@att.net

John Larkin said:
Here's a schmitt-based voltage flipper. It's actually used on a couple
of products.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Circuits/Power/DC_DC2.jpg

Maybe I am extremely confused, but I don't understand why Q1 is
connected the way it is.

I think R1/R2/C1/U1 makes an oscillator when you turn on the juice.
That turns Q2 on and off through R3. OK.

When Q2 is on, a magnetic field builds up in L1. When Q2 turns off, the
field collapses, inducing a voltage in L1. This is rectified by D1 and
filtered by the capacitor that must not be named to become the -12 V
out. OK.

C2 is a power supply bypass capacitor, probably to deal with the
current peaks when Q2 is on. OK.

R4/R5/Q1 seem to be part of the feedback. I think the idea is that when
the -12 V goes too far away from ground, you want the oscillator to have
Q2 turned on for shorter amounts of time. I further think that the idea
is to "steal" some of the current that would normally charge C1 and dump
that current to ground instead, which changes how fast C1 charges.

If that is true, I would sort of think that the base of Q1 would be
towards the R4/R5 junction, the emitter would be grounded, and the
collector would go to the R1/R2 junction.

I'm not saying it doesn't work (it *is* in production); I am just
trying to understand how it works.

Matt Roberds
 
M

mroberds@att.net

Bypass caps are good, like wearing garlic to keep vampires away. They
both work.

What if I put a bypass cap on the clove of garlic before wearing? Will
that keep twice as many vampires away? (Or a clove of garlic across the
bypass cap in a circuit. Hmm.)
Ideally yes, but the feedback polarity would be wrong.

If it was hooked up like I said, as the base goes more and more
negative, the transistor conducts less and less, and steals less current
from C1? That isn't what you want, yeah.
When the output finally gets close to -12, the emitter of Q1 hits
about -0.6, and Q1 starts to conduct.
It's a common-base, non-inverting amplifier.

Aha. That, and the fact that negative voltages are involved, makes it
make sense to me.

I am used to seeing either common-emitter or common-collector circuits
with a single supply, where the signal into the base tells the
transistor what to do. From that perspective, having a grounded base
seemed weird at first - "it's never gonna do anything". The fact
that it isn't one of those topologies, plus the fact that there is a
negative supply, means the emitter can get down to a voltage where the
transistor will start turning on.

I have seen common-base circuits before, but drawn with the whole
transistor symbol rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise, mostly to
emphasise that something different is happening.
As the emitter goes negative, Q1 collector current flows, pulling C1
down, reducing the oscillator duty cycle.

The current "stolen" from C1 via Q1 ends up in the -12 V out, right?
Along with the < 1 mA from the +5 V reference that comes through R4 and
R5?
It's not super accurate, but I'm just using it to power opamps.

If you needed more accuracy, and as long as the opamps need between a
few and few dozen mA or less, maybe you could follow your circuit with
a 79L12 and be happy. On the other hand, if the opamps only need a
couple of mA total, the current that the 79L12 needs to run becomes a
big part of the load. If you're running on a watch battery or
something, you're counting every mA.
Certain Engineers Who Must Not Be Named think I should use Cuk
converters or something complicated like that instead.

PIC, AVR or equal with a software PID loop. :)

Matt Roberds
 
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