My alarm company has billed me before doing anything

[dcalarms]

I contracted with a local alarm company in December. The day after
the contract was signed, I called the salesman and asked to have two
sensors removed from the contract. We agreed that I would go to the
same local electronic supply house (where I have shopped for years)
and buy some additional sensors and then do the pre-wiring myself.
The salesman agreed and we reduced the contract charges by about $300
and agreed that they would install a DSC Kit, the QP6-3-433, and that
I would go ahead and pull the electrical and phone connections to the
point where the box and panel were to be installed.

I subsequently realized I didn't have time to do the work right away
and called and spoke with one of the company's owners and asked him to
wait until I had time to do the pre-wire and purchasing of the extra
sensors and boards I want to ad. He agreed with no hesitation and
even offered to buy anything I wanted and bill me at his cost.

Since that conversation a month ago, I visited the electronics house
and picked up pointers on a different kit that would be better for
what I want. I also obtained the price for thie kit that is on my
contract.

To this date, the alarm company has done nothing more than have a
salesman spend a coouple of hours selling me the system and writing a
contract. They admit they have not bought any items for my job and
they have not done anything except talk with me.

Friday, I received an invoice, marked 90 Days Past Due, for the full,
original contract cost, plus a full charge for a quarter's monitoring
-- of a system that has never been installed. Despite the 80 Days
Past Due, they've never invoiced me before.

As alarm systems professionals, what would you do if you were in my
place?

Options:

Call the owner again and ask him to explain the invoice. If he is at
the least uncooperative, advise him that I want to cancel the contract
because of the poor customer service and ask for all of my $300
deposit back -- except for a $50 deduction to pay the salesman's
commission.

Refer matter to state alarm company licensing bureau and ask them to
investigate the matter.

In addition to referring it to the state authorities, contact the
local BBB and register a complaint about the company's business
practices.

Make no contact with the company or the state and file a small claims
court action to get my entire $300 back and then cancel the order.

I suspect that somewhere, in this group, there are dealers and
salesman who have been on the other side of this situation -- and
maybe a consumer or two that has been in my situatin. I'd like to
read ideas from both sides of the equation.

Thanks,

DCAlarms2007

 

[alarman]

I contracted with a local alarm company in December. The day after
the contract was signed, I called the salesman and asked to have two
sensors removed from the contract. We agreed that I would go to the
same local electronic supply house (where I have shopped for years)
and buy some additional sensors and then do the pre-wiring myself.
The salesman agreed and we reduced the contract charges by about $300
and agreed that they would install a DSC Kit, the QP6-3-433, and that
I would go ahead and pull the electrical and phone connections to the
point where the box and panel were to be installed.

I subsequently realized I didn't have time to do the work right away
and called and spoke with one of the company's owners and asked him to
wait until I had time to do the pre-wire and purchasing of the extra
sensors and boards I want to ad. He agreed with no hesitation and
even offered to buy anything I wanted and bill me at his cost.

Since that conversation a month ago, I visited the electronics house
and picked up pointers on a different kit that would be better for
what I want. I also obtained the price for thie kit that is on my
contract.

To this date, the alarm company has done nothing more than have a
salesman spend a coouple of hours selling me the system and writing a
contract. They admit they have not bought any items for my job and
they have not done anything except talk with me.

Friday, I received an invoice, marked 90 Days Past Due, for the full,
original contract cost, plus a full charge for a quarter's monitoring
-- of a system that has never been installed. Despite the 80 Days
Past Due, they've never invoiced me before.

As alarm systems professionals, what would you do if you were in my
place?

Options:

Call the owner again and ask him to explain the invoice. If he is at
the least uncooperative, advise him that I want to cancel the contract
because of the poor customer service and ask for all of my $300
deposit back -- except for a $50 deduction to pay the salesman's
commission.

Refer matter to state alarm company licensing bureau and ask them to
investigate the matter.

In addition to referring it to the state authorities, contact the
local BBB and register a complaint about the company's business
practices.

Make no contact with the company or the state and file a small claims
court action to get my entire $300 back and then cancel the order.

I suspect that somewhere, in this group, there are dealers and
salesman who have been on the other side of this situation -- and
maybe a consumer or two that has been in my situatin. I'd like to
read ideas from both sides of the equation.

Thanks,

DCAlarms2007

Where do you people come from?
js

 

[Robert L Bass]

This sounds like someone entered the contract into the alarm company's accounting system at the time the sale was made. This would
be common practice. What was uncommon was your decision to provide part of the labor and materials. This was followed by a delay
at your request. That's also not common. I'd be willing to bet that the alarm company doesn't have a routine method of handling
this situation.

Why not just give them a call and explain what has happened? Unless something is very wrong they'll correct it right away.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Crash Gordon]

Sheesh...why not over react.

Obviously, the billling department entered you as an active completed
job..just call them and explain you've not even been installed yet. Once the
contract is signed the salesperson probably puts in for his commission, so
they think you're finished. Pretty rare for a alarm company to let the
homeowner do sweat-equity anyway.


|I contracted with a local alarm company in December. The day after
| the contract was signed, I called the salesman and asked to have two
| sensors removed from the contract. We agreed that I would go to the
| same local electronic supply house (where I have shopped for years)
| and buy some additional sensors and then do the pre-wiring myself.
| The salesman agreed and we reduced the contract charges by about $300
| and agreed that they would install a DSC Kit, the QP6-3-433, and that
| I would go ahead and pull the electrical and phone connections to the
| point where the box and panel were to be installed.
|
| I subsequently realized I didn't have time to do the work right away
| and called and spoke with one of the company's owners and asked him to
| wait until I had time to do the pre-wire and purchasing of the extra
| sensors and boards I want to ad. He agreed with no hesitation and
| even offered to buy anything I wanted and bill me at his cost.
|
| Since that conversation a month ago, I visited the electronics house
| and picked up pointers on a different kit that would be better for
| what I want. I also obtained the price for thie kit that is on my
| contract.
|
| To this date, the alarm company has done nothing more than have a
| salesman spend a coouple of hours selling me the system and writing a
| contract. They admit they have not bought any items for my job and
| they have not done anything except talk with me.
|
| Friday, I received an invoice, marked 90 Days Past Due, for the full,
| original contract cost, plus a full charge for a quarter's monitoring
| -- of a system that has never been installed. Despite the 80 Days
| Past Due, they've never invoiced me before.
|
| As alarm systems professionals, what would you do if you were in my
| place?
|
| Options:
|
| Call the owner again and ask him to explain the invoice. If he is at
| the least uncooperative, advise him that I want to cancel the contract
| because of the poor customer service and ask for all of my $300
| deposit back -- except for a $50 deduction to pay the salesman's
| commission.
|
| Refer matter to state alarm company licensing bureau and ask them to
| investigate the matter.
|
| In addition to referring it to the state authorities, contact the
| local BBB and register a complaint about the company's business
| practices.
|
| Make no contact with the company or the state and file a small claims
| court action to get my entire $300 back and then cancel the order.
|
| I suspect that somewhere, in this group, there are dealers and
| salesman who have been on the other side of this situation -- and
| maybe a consumer or two that has been in my situatin. I'd like to
| read ideas from both sides of the equation.
|
| Thanks,
|
| DCAlarms2007
|

 

[dcalarms]

Thanks for the feedback.

In regard to it being unusual that a company would allow the customer
to either buy additional components or do the prewiring, that may be
true. I did spend twenty two years as a tech agent for a Federal
agency and wired everything from mail boxes to hotel rooms -- remember
the great video of DC Mayor Marion Berry? I also recently worked with
a corporate alarm installation team and helped install a plant
security system that had about two dozen areas with over a hundred
zones in each protected area. That work involved almost all DSC
equipment. I also had previously explored a DIY approach to doing the
whole home system myself and then contracting with a local monitor.
They come in and perform a complete system check and correct any
wiring or programming issues. All of this was discussed with the
salesman and he suggested that I could do some of the work myself to
save a few bucks on the total cost.

As far as wanted to "grow fangs" and go after my dealer, not really.
I spent a few years in the installed home improvement business and I
may have mislead you by not arranging the options from the most simple
to the most drastic. Besides, before I contracted with the company, I
had already checked them out with the state alarm company licensing
office. They're okay or I would not have asked them to come out.

I will call the owner today and work it out. The plan we agreed to
includes them doing the actual sensor connections and programming. As
much as I think I might know, I also know it will be easier if they
can come in and work without having to crawl around in my attic and
run wires through walls and ceilings. I can do the electric and
telephone and get it to the point where they need it.

All in all, it'll be okay. I do think the billing is an error. I
still wonder why the billing is for the full amount and not the
reduced amount that we agreed to.

On a related topic, I think I want to be able to "test" my system
while on the phone with the monitoring point. To do that, I do not
want the outside strobes and sirens to sound. Looking at the wiring
diagrams for these devices, I think I can install a key switch in the
box and turn them off during the test. I did ask the electronic
supply house techies and they said they thought it would be okay. I
asked if I would need to jump the switch with a terminating resistor
(EOL) and they think not. If someone has done this on a DSC-style
system, I'd appreciate the feedback.

This is a good group for getting feedback. The mix of posters runs
from calm and reasoning to flaming and blaming. All of the active
posters seem to know the business and usually take the time to provide
good feedback or reasonable opinions. My original post was an effort
to get the array of possible options. Look at the replies. I think I
got what I wanted.

Thanks again.

dcalarms

 

[Robert L Bass]

In regard to it being unusual that a company

would allow the customer to either buy
additional components or do the prewiring,
that may be true. I did spend twenty two
years as a tech agent for a Federal agency
and wired everything from mail boxes to hotel
rooms...

I wasn't trying to imply that you were not
capable of doing the job. The point was that
your situation is so out of the ordinary that
your alarm company's accounting office
probably doesn't have a standard method of
handling the situation. It is likely that they
simply made a mistake. I suggest you
contact them, let them know of the error
and give them the opportunity to straighten
it out.

FWIW, most folks in this newsgroup know
that I'm not an ardent supporter of alarm
companies. I just happen to feel that this
was probably an innocent mistake.

All of this was discussed with the salesman
and he suggested that I could do some of
the work myself to save a few bucks on the
total cost.

That was decent of him. You've been treated
well up until this accounting error.

As far as wanted to "grow fangs" and go
after my dealer, not really...

That was someone else's characterization. I
figure you're just an average consumer who's
rightfully miffed at getting this bill.

I will call the owner today and work it out...

Excellent. Please let us know how things
get resolved. I'm betting they'll correct it
right away.

This is a good group for getting feedback.
The mix of posters runs from calm and
reasoning to flaming and blaming...

That's an apt description of Usenet itself. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Jim]

Thanks for the feedback.

In regard to it being unusual that a company would allow the customer
to either buy additional components or do the prewiring, that may be
true.  I did spend twenty two years as a tech agent for a Federal
agency and wired everything from mail boxes to hotel rooms -- remember
the great video of DC Mayor Marion Berry?  I also recently worked with
a corporate alarm installation team and helped install a plant
security system that had about two dozen areas with over a hundred
zones in each protected area.  That work involved almost all DSC
equipment.  I also had previously explored a DIY approach to doing the
whole home system myself and then contracting with a local monitor.
They come in and perform a complete system check and correct any
wiring or programming issues.  All of this was discussed with the
salesman and he suggested that I could do some of the work myself to
save a few bucks on the total cost.

As far as wanted to "grow fangs" and go after my dealer, not really.
I spent a few years in the installed home improvement business and I
may have mislead you by not arranging the options from the most simple
to the most drastic.  Besides, before I contracted with the company, I
had already checked them out with the state alarm company licensing
office.  They're okay or I would not have asked them to come out.

I will call the owner today and work it out.  The plan we agreed to
includes them doing the actual sensor connections and programming.  As
much as I think I might know, I also know it will be easier if they
can come in and work without having to crawl around in my attic and
run wires through walls and ceilings.  I can do the electric and
telephone and get it to the point where they need it.

All in all, it'll be okay.  I do think the billing is an error.  I
still wonder why the billing is for the full amount and not the
reduced amount that we agreed to.

On a related topic, I think I want to be able to "test" my system
while on the phone with the monitoring point.  To do that, I do not
want the outside strobes and sirens to sound.  Looking at the wiring
diagrams for these devices, I think I can install a key switch in the
box and turn them off during the test.  I did ask the electronic
supply house techies and they said they thought it would be okay.  I
asked if  I would need to jump the switch with a terminating resistor
(EOL) and they think not.  If someone has done this on a DSC-style
system, I'd appreciate the feedback.

Let's see now ........ The purpose of a test is ...... ummmmmm to test
your system?

If you don't leave the outdoor siren and strobe on, how will you know
if they're working? Hmmmmmmm?

Unless, of course, you intend to test every door and window,
everytime you test the system. Then the keyswitch would probably be a
good idea.

I usually suggest that my clients open a few different openings each
time they test their system. This way the siren isn't going for longer
than a few minutes, each time.

 

[Crash Gordon]

Generally I'll test a audible panic...which tells me the siren is working
and tests the CS. Then I'm done making noise. I put the watchtone/chime or
whatever and check all the windows/doors that way...same for the pirs and
gbs (I'll break a window or two just to make sure).

Thanks for the feedback.

In regard to it being unusual that a company would allow the customer
to either buy additional components or do the prewiring, that may be
true. I did spend twenty two years as a tech agent for a Federal
agency and wired everything from mail boxes to hotel rooms -- remember
the great video of DC Mayor Marion Berry? I also recently worked with
a corporate alarm installation team and helped install a plant
security system that had about two dozen areas with over a hundred
zones in each protected area. That work involved almost all DSC
equipment. I also had previously explored a DIY approach to doing the
whole home system myself and then contracting with a local monitor.
They come in and perform a complete system check and correct any
wiring or programming issues. All of this was discussed with the
salesman and he suggested that I could do some of the work myself to
save a few bucks on the total cost.

As far as wanted to "grow fangs" and go after my dealer, not really.
I spent a few years in the installed home improvement business and I
may have mislead you by not arranging the options from the most simple
to the most drastic. Besides, before I contracted with the company, I
had already checked them out with the state alarm company licensing
office. They're okay or I would not have asked them to come out.

I will call the owner today and work it out. The plan we agreed to
includes them doing the actual sensor connections and programming. As
much as I think I might know, I also know it will be easier if they
can come in and work without having to crawl around in my attic and
run wires through walls and ceilings. I can do the electric and
telephone and get it to the point where they need it.

All in all, it'll be okay. I do think the billing is an error. I
still wonder why the billing is for the full amount and not the
reduced amount that we agreed to.

On a related topic, I think I want to be able to "test" my system
while on the phone with the monitoring point. To do that, I do not
want the outside strobes and sirens to sound. Looking at the wiring
diagrams for these devices, I think I can install a key switch in the
box and turn them off during the test. I did ask the electronic
supply house techies and they said they thought it would be okay. I
asked if I would need to jump the switch with a terminating resistor
(EOL) and they think not. If someone has done this on a DSC-style
system, I'd appreciate the feedback.

Let's see now ........ The purpose of a test is ...... ummmmmm to test
your system?

If you don't leave the outdoor siren and strobe on, how will you know
if they're working? Hmmmmmmm?

Unless, of course, you intend to test every door and window,
everytime you test the system. Then the keyswitch would probably be a
good idea.

I usually suggest that my clients open a few different openings each
time they test their system. This way the siren isn't going for longer
than a few minutes, each time.

 

[dcalarms]

Well it can't be anything in the DSC Power Series because they only go to64
zones so with a hundred it had to be DSC MAXSYS. That panel would be my last
pick for a large system. It takes about 45 minutes for a full upload and
another 45 minutes for a full download. There are many other reasons not to
use it, especially if you have to use the analog loop. In  our area we can't
use it anyway since it isn't CP-01.

Roland:

I agrre that DSC may not have panels that will control hundreds of
zones. The plant was previously protected by Wells Fargo Alarm and
the decision was made to use some of the old control panels and the
new panels were DMP brand. The key pads were also DMP. I was
referring to most of the PIR sensors being mostly DSC. They also used
another brand of PIR for very long range coverage where the plant
floor was really large. Those sensors were about six times as big as
the DSC sensors.

Unlike my home system, where each sensor is a "home run" wire back to
the control panel, the system that was installed was like a long daisy
chain. The cable had five wires and all sensors were digitally
addressed so that any individual sensor sent a unique signal when it
was triggered.

I thought it was interesting that, except for audible alarms on the
emergency exits, the alarm system had no longer announcement
capability. If you were near the key pad, it would start beeping, but
they were often not audible because the areas were cleared and sealed
when the work day ended. Instead, the system was monitored at the
corporate alarm monitoring center in Washington state. They would
call the guard shack and report the area and zone and the time of the
alarm. Their dispatcher would stay on the phone and update our
control center until the guard reset the system. In most cases, we
were on the doors of any area in less than two minutes and the plant
gates gould be closed in less than a minute. We had role players do a
surprise test of the system several times and we always managed to
catch them before they got to a fence or vehicle.

Changing the subject slightly, my home system is going to have a
mixture of wireless and hard wired sensors. My home is about 1300
square feet including a finished basement. I will use:

4 wired glass break sensors (bedroms and dining room)
1 wireless glass break sensor (enclosed porch with closed ceiling)
3