More Generator stuff

[vaughn]

- Ability to locate the inside unit on other than an exterior wall and
cool an interior room.

True, but don't forget that you still need a condensate drain. In slab
homes that can be very difficult to arrange in an inside wall.

Vaughn
..

 

[Neon John]

True, but don't forget that you still need a condensate drain. In slab
homes that can be very difficult to arrange in an inside wall.

at worst, a small condensate pump, a link to tubing going up through a hole in
the ceiling, and out to the side wall. No big deal. Many mini-splits have
the condensate pump built in. In any case, a mini split is certainly a lot
easier to install into the same architecture as is a conventional unit.

BTW, it isn't "ignorance" but simple differences in culture and economics that
are at the root the low awareness rate in the United States. Until the price
of power started getting artificially run-up (just like gasoline has been),
there was no reason to even consider anything other than a central unit.
Except for weirdos like me, of course, who wants his bedroom to be a walk-in
refrigerator.

Many splits also don't make much sense in houses the kids were all the rooms
are occupied most of the time. Only since the Bloomers' nests have been
emptying out has there been any need for zoning, which is what many splits
enable. The combination of high electric rates and empty nests is what's
driving the new awareness of minisplits.

John

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Okay, okay, I'll take it back ... UNfuck you!

 

[Winston]

Stabil helps keep products in the gasoline from forming shellac.



I know what it is normally used for, but I have seen several people
recommend it before to use in older small gas engines that were designed
before the ethanol was added to gasoline the way it is today because people
were having problems with the engines after starting to use the reformulated
gasoline with the ethanol added. Now, you don't have much of a choice in
what you can get as far as gasoline without ethanol, at least where I live.

Ethanol additives cause rough running in smaller gas engines;
adding gas treatment is rumored to smooth them out?

--Winston

 

[vaughn]

The combination of high electric rates and empty nests...

Bingo! You just described our situation. With zoning and keeping our
central AC off most of the time, we keep our summer electric bill down to
slightly over $100/month; in an uninsulated south Florida house.

Vaughn

 

[Winston]

I set the idle screw richer to smooth them out. Ethanol has less
energy per volume.

Oh. Thanks!

--Winston

 

[Neon John]

the only problem is, here in the US EPA has eliminated all carburetor
adjustments on most general-purpose engines and that includes generators. An
idle mixture adjustment would solve so many problems. Unfortunately that
screw fell victim to typical EPA idiocy. The idle jet is generally now
pressed in and is fixed. It can be reamed (I use watchmakers reamers) but
it's a very tedious job, is very easy to go too far and if you do the
carburetor is ruined.

The easiest way to overall enrich the mixture is to raise the float level.
That enriches the mixture over the whole operating range, something that EPA'd
engines badly need. The nice thing about change in the flow level is that if
you go too far you can easily back out. I highly recommend raising the level
a few millimeters on the little generator that started this discussion. It
makes the thing much each year to start and eliminates light load ping. on
that machine, two to 3 mm is enough.

John

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance. ~Goethe

 

[Neon John]

Maybe this will solve all our problems.


http://jalopnik.com/5118297/tech+savvy-prius-owner-uses-hybrid-to-power-house-during-snow-storm

Hank <~~~thinks John has already tried this.

Ahhh, no. I'm only interesting in things that work and are practical. This
was a stunt that anyone could do - hooking a 12 volt inverter to his car's
electrical system and letting it idle. In typical narcissistic prius owner
fashion, this guy hands out a press release and turns the stunt into a news
event.

Here are some messy details. The Prius battery (my info is for the 2004 model
year) is a 202 volt nominal, 6.5 amp-hour (no, I didn't slip a decimal point)
pack that contains (to 100% DOD) 1.3kWh of energy. A pair of golf cart
batteries has 2.64 kWh as a comparison. Toyota limits the cycling to
somewhere between 40 and 80% DOD to extend battery life and thus make a
car-grade warranty possible. Bottom line: The battery is more of a flywheel,
absorbing energy during braking and giving it up during acceleration, than it
is a source of significant energy. A Prius starting battery stores about as
much energy as the high voltage pack. Later model Prii (priuses?) have
slightly larger packs but not enough larger to make much difference.

A MH-style electrical system with a large converter that can fast-charge the
pack is much more fuel-efficient. I have such a system in my cabin, only with
12 12 volt batteries, arranged as a 24 volt S/P bank instead of only a couple.

I know of at least one engineer who has designed an inverter to run directly
from the high voltage bus. He ain't this guy. That would be more efficient
than what this clown did. The clown's architecture is thus

engine->high voltage alternator->rectifier->high voltage pack->12 volt DC/DC
converter->12 volt battery->12 to 120 volt inverter.

Grossly inefficient. According to testing that I've read about, a compact car
idling with the alternator nearly fully loaded by an inverter is more
efficient than this lashup.

A high voltage inverter architecture would be thus:

engine->high voltage alternator->rectifier->high voltage pack->120 vac
inverter.

This would be significantly more efficient than the above lash-up, especially
if the powertrain management computer had a mode programmed in for that type
of operation. It doesn't. Toyota has been playing around with this notion
but so far, nothing. The NiMH batteries that they chose to use are probably
too fragile for that kind of duty.

Bottom line: This clown did nothing any different than any of the rest of us
do when we hook an inverter to the car's battery and idle the engine for
emergency or remote power.

Much more fuel efficient are those who siphon fuel from their vehicles to run
their appropriately sized (yep, even EUs count here) generators. A little 1
or 2 kW generator running just the lights, computer and TV, and maybe the
furnace blower if the furnace is gas powered, is FAR more efficient than
idling a car engine.

Even more efficient than that is my setup, with a high powered UPS that can
run my cabin except for the heating appliances, coupled to a high powered
charger that fully loads a generator. I can operate for days on my battery
bank. I can also restore a day's worth of energy in just a couple of hours
daily of generator operation.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance. ~Goethe

 

[Mike Manuka]

Pete the inverter mini-splits (now I am educated what they are) are so far
in front of the conventional motor units.
Start-up bump current on inverter systems are nil and only run power. Yamaha
EF1000is starts up on eco throttle.
With inverter air con load on generator is constant as inverter runs at
speed necessary to maintain temperature and does not switch on and off.
On inverter systems even the condenser fan is variable speed.

 

[Mike Manuka]

John is reasonably common in Australia to install inverter splits in travel
trailers and motorhomes.
To be perfectly honest we don't like the roof mounted power hungry heavy
dinosaur crap that comes from some countries
Other issue inverter split system is less than half price of dinosaur roof
system.

 

[vaughn]

- Week-long power outages, several years apart.

The above factor greatly reduces the value of any solution that has a
battery at its heart. Good maintenance and proper charging can make even
mid-priced batteries last for several years, but they still are a
life-limited item.

Do you have natural gas available? I live in hurricane country and also
have to plan for " Week-long power outages, several years apart". I have a
battery/PV system that also starts my natural-gas fueled generator, but the
most useful item is the generator itself. After hurricanes, my ancient Onan
generator quietly chugs chugs away on piped-in gas while my neighbors stand
in long lines with their 5-gallon gas cans at the few gas stations that
finally open.

- Use the generator for heavier motor loads.

Which unfortunately includes my big 'ole double door 'fridge. The best
plan I have come up with so far is the run the generator a few hours twice a
day to run the 'fridge and charge my batteries. Between runs, we live
mostly in a 12-volt world. Yes, we can easily plug our inverter into our
transfer panel, but our 'fridge does not happily run on square waves so we
usually just don't bother..

Have any main stream manufacturers applied inverter technology to
refrigerators yet? The reduced starting surge and high efficiency would
sure be nice!

Vaughn

 

[William Wixon]

The above factor greatly reduces the value of any solution that has a
battery at its heart. Good maintenance and proper charging can make even
mid-priced batteries last for several years, but they still are a
life-limited item.

Do you have natural gas available? I live in hurricane country and also
have to plan for " Week-long power outages, several years apart". I have
a battery/PV system that also starts my natural-gas fueled generator, but
the most useful item is the generator itself. After hurricanes, my
ancient Onan generator quietly chugs chugs away on piped-in gas while my
neighbors stand in long lines with their 5-gallon gas cans at the few gas
stations that finally open.


Which unfortunately includes my big 'ole double door 'fridge. The best
plan I have come up with so far is the run the generator a few hours twice
a day to run the 'fridge and charge my batteries. Between runs, we live
mostly in a 12-volt world. Yes, we can easily plug our inverter into our
transfer panel, but our 'fridge does not happily run on square waves so we
usually just don't bother..

Have any main stream manufacturers applied inverter technology to
refrigerators yet? The reduced starting surge and high efficiency would
sure be nice!

Vaughn

please forgive me for asking a stupid question. i know it would be a huge
hassle and be messy and dangerous, but would it be possible to keep a wet
cell battery stored in a dry condition, put in the electrolyte when there
was a need to store electricity and then drain the battery (of acid) after
the power outage ends to keep the battery in a storage mode between outages?
does lead acid chemistry allow the plates to be immersed and then drained
and re-immersed and still be functional? just curious. i mean, since i've
never heard of anyone doing this i assume it's TOTALLY not possible and dumb
to even ask such a question. i suppose it it was possible some battery
manufacturers would put a little tap at the bottom of their batteries for
such a procedure. lol.

b.w.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Mike Manuka:

Pete the inverter mini-splits (now I am educated what they are) are so far
in front of the conventional motor units.
Start-up bump current on inverter systems are nil and only run power. Yamaha
EF1000is starts up on eco throttle.
With inverter air con load on generator is constant as inverter runs at
speed necessary to maintain temperature and does not switch on and off.
On inverter systems even the condenser fan is variable speed.

I'm not a traveler, but I'm pretty cheap.

It's sounding to me like a mini-split for each bedroom in our
house could save some significant bucks over the course of a few
summers compared to whole-house AC running 24-7.

 

[gary]

Per Mike Manuka:

I'm not a traveler, but I'm pretty cheap.

It's sounding to me like a mini-split for each bedroom in our
house could save some significant bucks over the course of a few
summers compared to whole-house AC running 24-7.

hi i am in QLD aus and no one i know except the rich have ducted air con
we all have split systems as they are known here the first room most
people do is there bed room then the lounge or common areas of there
houses the split systems here for a bedroom size unit cost about $700.00
au fitted which only takes an hour or 2 $700.00 au is about 1 weeks pay
for the average worker here. Can you run a split of a inverter? if so i
may fit one to my caravan /rv/ trailer to you over the pond. ours run
for about 9 months of the year heating in winter and cooling in summer
do yours heat as well as cool? they heat great we only use the heat for
about 2 months of the year rest is cooling and they remove humidity as well
Gary

 

[Mike Manuka]

The inverter fridges are great. Amazingly efficient with great insulation
and doors inside fridge for shelves so cold does not all pour out when you
open the main door.
Variable speed according to temperature and load.
Power 220L fridge from 400w sine wave inverter

 

[Neon John]

mini-split? Not a term I know. Used an LG inverter S09AHP2 Cooling: 2.80kW Heating: 2.96kW
Cannot power the heating on the Yamaha EF1000is but have a Webasto diesel heater.

Converting to familiar units, that's 9,600 BTU for AC and 10,100 BTU heating.
That's impressive on the Yamaha. Is it a heat pump? Is the fact that it
won't run in heat mode just the Yamaha being slightly overloaded or is there
another issue?

How do you have it physically mounted? Particularly, I'm interested in the
condensing unit. Any pictures?

Most all the mini-split condensing units that I've seen or viewed in catalogs
are tall and skinny. That makes mounting it on a motorhome problematic. It
would make the MH too high if mounted on the roof. From what I can tell, I
have two options. 1) mount the condensing unit on the rear bumper - kinda
Beverly Hillbilly looking or 2), separate the compressor from the condenser
and lay the condenser down horz or near horz on the roof. That would be the
most satisfactory but would involve lots of work.

don't power anything else off the Yamaha other than air-conditioner when needed in summer
completely solar powered for everything else
would say by next summer will be able to power the LG system from the solar panels while the sun is up
presently have in solar panels 410w on travel trailer 300w on truck and adding another 170w
will need to do a little rewiring and switching and add Sunny Boy inverter

Wow, that is some serious $$$ spent on solar cells. That would buy a lot of
gasoline! Other than cost, what I don't like about solar is that you have to
park in the sun. I'm a shade-seeker. Now if they were mounted on something
that could be rolled out into the sun....

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
No one can be right all of the time but I'm getting close.

 

[Mike Manuka]

John yes, the heating is just too much for the Yamaha EF1000is. However, I
would not ever use it for heating and reason I bought the EF1000is in
preference to the larger power unit. The only reason I carry the Yamaha is
for the air-conditioner cooling - nothing else. Many rigs are running that
inverter air-con with the Yamaha. Yamaha seldom get to full power and
generally starts off at maximum 760w and capacity of Yamaha is 900w.
Usually within fifteen minutes of starting is down to 500w. On low power I
can power it from my 300w inverter. Is truly amazing.
You can see my inverter split system install here:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/goldway/roadstars/page2.html

We have eucalyptus trees which are our predominant natural tree which we
refer to as 'widow makers'. They are large trees and can drop large limbs
at any time without warning. Only the brave or the stupid park under them.
What I do wherever possible in summer and when convenient is park on the
eastern side of the tree so I get shade from midday on, and then filtered
sun all afternoon. In summer my batteries are generally always charged by
10:30am latest. In the winter you want all the sun you can get. I have 90%
shade cloth awnings that are a five minute job to put up in summer for the
sides of the travel trailer.

Gasoline here is probably double the price of the US, but food is nearly
half price to the US. Having to run a generator compared to flicking
switches to make things happen is my preference. Filling the generator,
servicing, repairs and spares makes the cost of solar panels a small
expensive considering it is a one off cost. The other thing the silence of
solar power is what I love. I am a great believer with solar, spend the
money once, do the job once and damn well do it properly. I see so many
people with too little solar panel wattage and far to many batteries.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per gary:

hi i am in QLD aus and no one i know except the rich have ducted air con
we all have split systems as they are known here the first room most
people do is there bed room then the lounge or common areas of there
houses the split systems here for a bedroom size unit cost about $700.00
au fitted which only takes an hour or 2 $700.00 au is about 1 weeks pay
for the average worker here. Can you run a split of a inverter? if so i
may fit one to my caravan /rv/ trailer to you over the pond. ours run
for about 9 months of the year heating in winter and cooling in summer
do yours heat as well as cool? they heat great we only use the heat for
about 2 months of the year rest is cooling and they remove humidity as well

Do people typically have a complete compressor/evaporator set for
each room? Or do they combine two or more rooms on a compressor?