More Generator stuff

[Neon John]

Continuing on this thread of small generators, particularly the ChiCom
special, I wrote up some testing that I did last night.

http://www.johndearmond.com/2008/12/24/the-generator-that-could/

Enjoy.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
It isn't Global Warming.... It's Jerry Falwell arriving in hell.

 

[andrew]

Follow up set a.e.h

Continuing on this thread of small generators, particularly the ChiCom
special, I wrote up some testing that I did last night.

http://www.johndearmond.com/2008/12/24/the-generator-that-could/

Good stuff, I keep one of these (yamahah motorbike derived??) 2 stroke
gensets in my 4x4, it's no longer as easy to start as yours but it gets
there in the end.

I have a friend going to Rwanda to help with a school there. No electrcity
so she intends to buy a generator there and has opted for the Honda
inverter.

I feel they might be better off with the cheap 2 stroke and running dc for
battery charging, led ultra brights and laptop rather than attempting to
mimic a grid supplied system. Fuel consumption will be an issue though.

AJH

 

[Neon John]

Follow up set a.e.h



Good stuff, I keep one of these (yamahah motorbike derived??) 2 stroke
gensets in my 4x4, it's no longer as easy to start as yours but it gets
there in the end.

the trick is in holding the choke lever all the way shut. "Choke" on these
things doesn't quite shut the butterfly all the way. Mine is a pull-monster
too if I don't do that. I've been meaning to fix that little problem by
welding up the old notch and machining a new one but holding the thing shut
works so well that I've never gotten a round tuit.

I have a friend going to Rwanda to help with a school there. No electrcity
so she intends to buy a generator there and has opted for the Honda
inverter.

I feel they might be better off with the cheap 2 stroke and running dc for
battery charging, led ultra brights and laptop rather than attempting to
mimic a grid supplied system. Fuel consumption will be an issue though.

You are absolutely correct with one exception. Even with an EU, continuous
operation will eat her up on fuel costs compared to a
battery/charger/generator system. Substitute 12 volt CFLs (or even 120 volt
CFLs operated from an inverter) over the LEDs:

http://www.neon-john.net/Neon/Misc/misc_home.htm first article.

She needs to learn from the off-grid folks, none of whom except maybe those
few with a large enough hydro plant, do it any other way than with a battery
system and inverter for 120 volt applications.

As I've mentioned before, that little 2-stroke is almost perfectly matched to
a PD Intellipower 60 amp charger. Using that architecture, the generator is
either wide open or off with no fuel wasting idling or almost idling under
light load.

One other consideration. She's likely to get bad/dirty fuel in a place like
that. Compare the ease of removing the carb (float bowl at least) on the
2-stroke for cleaning with the EU. Getting the EU carb off involves major
plastic surgery

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Serenity: That feeling of knowing that your secretary will never tell either of your wives.

 

[andrew]

You are absolutely correct with one exception.  Even with an EU,
continuous operation will eat her up on fuel costs compared to a
battery/charger/generator system. Substitute 12 volt CFLs (or even 120
volt CFLs operated from an inverter) over the LEDs:

http://www.neon-john.net/Neon/Misc/misc_home.htm first article.

Fine but my understanding is that her students have no home lighting either,
I was advocating also charging some gel batteries or nimh cells so that
they might take a led reading light home.

We have 12V CFLs here in UK which are nominally 11W and use ordinary mini ES
thread fittings but I wonder what will be available in Rwanda. These would
function as per your test with a gel battery.

As I've mentioned before, that little 2-stroke is almost perfectly matched
to a PD Intellipower 60 amp charger.  Using that architecture, the
generator is either wide open or off with no fuel wasting idling or almost
idling under light load.

I missed that, do you have an article number?

One other consideration.  She's likely to get bad/dirty fuel in a place
like that.  

Agreed, also the 2t is fairly fool proof once the fuel is mixed.

AJH

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Tim Jackson:

CFL's

?

 

[vaughn]

CFL = Compact Fluorescent Lamp

Merry Christmas
Vaughn

 

[Neon John]

Neon John <[email protected]> wrote in

But man I might spring for one of those chi-com units .. just to have in
my truck or as a backup power unit. Could be very useful.

Do you have to mix the fuel or is there an oil injector?


thanks for the write up man!

You're most welcome. No oil injection. The book lists 50:1. I use the
Northern tool smokeless synthetic oil at 80:1. There is just a tiny bit of
smoke when it cranks but then it goes away as the muffler gets hot. There is
still the smell of oil in the air but it's not bad with that kind of oil.

The northern oil comes in little bottles good for 1 gallon of gas at 40:1. I
simply use a 2 gallon tank. I've been running it that lean since new and the
thing has thrived. The exhaust pipe is clean and no black mung oozes out. It
probably uses less oil than an air cooled 4-stroke of similar size.

One nice thing about this generator being engine-limited instead of
generator-limited is that more power is available with a few simple engine
mods. I have two of these and I'm thinking about buying a third to take apart
and see what kind of hotrodding that can be done. I'd love to get 1500 watts
out of it. That would be a very convenient output. Enough to run just about
any heating appliance at full output but still in a light package.

I can't believe how handy having a generator in the trunk is. I've had an
inverter installed in my car for years but for any serious load, the engine
needs to be running (no aux battery) and that means leaving the car open to
theft in bad areas.

Just the other day I went with a friend to look at a building he was
considering buying. No power. I got the generator out, along with the 100 ft
of 18 ga extension cord, a multi-outlet strip and a couple of CFL-powered work
lights. that gave us each a light. We explored all over the building, taking
a couple of hours.

My car would have idled away probably a gallon or two of gas. The generator
barely sipped the gas away from the filler neck. The building was larger than
the 100 ft cord would cover so I just carried the generator from area to area,
sitting it outside whenever possible. Flashlights would not have done the
job. Coleman lanterns would have but I'm loathe to carrying open flame into
someone else's unknown property.

I treat the generator as an infinite extension cord capable of 1000 watts.
Microwave oven at a picnic? NO problem. Power an amplifier for a band at a
camping party? NO problem. Need heat after a breakdown while waiting on the
wrecker? No problem. Best C-note I ever spent.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Better to pass boldly into that other world in the full glory of some passion
than fade and wither dismally with age. -Joyce

 

[Ralph E Lindberg]

Intersting, though kinda comparing apples and oranges. How about a
comparison with the Honda, Yamaha and the ChiCom clone of the Honda? I
see there are ChiCom clones of both the EU1000 and EU2000.

The big issue with the ChiCom clones of the EU series is they lack the
circuit to hook them together. My understanding is that circuit is
covered under a Honda patent, which they can (and do) enforce

--

 

[vaughn]

Continuing on this thread of small generators, particularly the ChiCom
special, I wrote up some testing that I did last night.

OK John, you convinced me. I just ordered one. It will serve as a backup
for my backup.

Vaughn

 

[JohnB]

You're most welcome. No oil injection. The book lists 50:1. I use the
Northern tool smokeless synthetic oil at 80:1. There is just a tiny bit
of
smoke when it cranks but then it goes away as the muffler gets hot. There
is
still the smell of oil in the air but it's not bad with that kind of oil.

The northern oil comes in little bottles good for 1 gallon of gas at 40:1.
I
simply use a 2 gallon tank. I've been running it that lean since new and
the
thing has thrived. The exhaust pipe is clean and no black mung oozes out.
It
probably uses less oil than an air cooled 4-stroke of similar size.

One nice thing about this generator being engine-limited instead of
generator-limited is that more power is available with a few simple engine
mods. I have two of these and I'm thinking about buying a third to take
apart
and see what kind of hotrodding that can be done. I'd love to get 1500
watts
out of it. That would be a very convenient output. Enough to run just
about
any heating appliance at full output but still in a light package.

I can't believe how handy having a generator in the trunk is. I've had an
inverter installed in my car for years but for any serious load, the
engine
needs to be running (no aux battery) and that means leaving the car open
to
theft in bad areas.

Just the other day I went with a friend to look at a building he was
considering buying. No power. I got the generator out, along with the
100 ft
of 18 ga extension cord, a multi-outlet strip and a couple of CFL-powered
work
lights. that gave us each a light. We explored all over the building,
taking
a couple of hours.

My car would have idled away probably a gallon or two of gas. The
generator
barely sipped the gas away from the filler neck. The building was larger
than
the 100 ft cord would cover so I just carried the generator from area to
area,
sitting it outside whenever possible. Flashlights would not have done the
job. Coleman lanterns would have but I'm loathe to carrying open flame
into
someone else's unknown property.

I treat the generator as an infinite extension cord capable of 1000 watts.
Microwave oven at a picnic? NO problem. Power an amplifier for a band at
a
camping party? NO problem. Need heat after a breakdown while waiting on
the
wrecker? No problem. Best C-note I ever spent.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Better to pass boldly into that other world in the full glory of some
passion
than fade and wither dismally with age. -Joyce

Do you add Stabil or some other gas treatment to the gas/oil mixture to
compensate for the ethanol that is in the gasoline to keep from damaging the
rubber seals in the fuel system, or is that a problem with this generator?

 

[Neon John]

Do you add Stabil or some other gas treatment to the gas/oil mixture to
compensate for the ethanol that is in the gasoline to keep from damaging the
rubber seals in the fuel system, or is that a problem with this generator?

No, no additives. No problems, either. I suspect that most of the problems
attributed to ethanol are rooted in dirty fuel systems. The enhanced solvent
characteristic of the ethanol probably loosens the crud and lets it go to
where it shouldn't be.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Give Blood. 8 Billion Mosquitoes can't be wrong.

 

[1100GS_rider]

The big issue with the ChiCom clones of the EU series is they lack the
circuit to hook them together. My understanding is that circuit is
covered under a Honda patent, which they can (and do) enforce

Cabela's sells a cable assembly that hooks up two Yamaha generators in
parallel. I guess it could be licensed from Honda, but why would Honda
do that?

 

[Mike Manuka]

Use a Yamaha EF1000is to power the air conditioner in the camper. Dumped
that roof mounted crap they fit and installed a domestic inverter split
system of same capacity. Inverter split system air con cools and works 100%
better than Coleman roof crap.

Speaking from experience in Africa 2 x 40w solar panels and 2 x 40Ah VRLA
sealed batteries, quality regulator with LED lights are superior option. For
laptop use 12v power supply. Purchase LED blocks from www.dealextreme.com
and hook them up in parallel. Has been best workable solution to date for
field staff. Make sure you have method to attach locks and stainless steel
cables to everything in Africa and don't take your eyes off them.
*EVERYTHING* in Africa has legs and walks even when you are looking at
things.

 

[Neon John]

Use a Yamaha EF1000is to power the air conditioner in the camper. Dumped
that roof mounted crap they fit and installed a domestic inverter split
system of same capacity. Inverter split system air con cools and works 100%
better than Coleman roof crap.

Are you talking about a mini-split? I'm considering that option for my rig
too. What size did you use?

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Democracy is three wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

 

[vaughn]

Are you talking about a mini-split? I'm considering that option for my
rig
too. What size did you use?

I recently installed a little mini-split in my bedroom.. What an amazing
concept! Even though ours is not an inverter model, it is still about 20%
more efficient than any window unit we can buy. It is so quiet, that we
tend to forget that it is running! Amazingly, ours is designed so that you
only need to install mains power to the outside unit. The fan on the inside
unit runs off of 40 volts DC and is fed through the low voltage control
cable.

Why do we need a separate AC in our bedroom? Two reasons: First, because
of the vaulted ceiling design of our house there is no elegant way to run
ductwork there from our central unit. So we have always used a window unit
in there, or just slept with the door wide open. Second, now that we are
empty-nesters there is no need to keep our whole house under air 24/7. At
night we only need cool our bedroom.

I believe that the averrage USA'n consumer is totally ignorant about the
advantages (or even existance) of mini-splits, so they are very rare in USA
residential use. (They are more common in commercial applications,
particularly good for small server rooms.)

My recent vacation through central America convinced me that the rest of
the world is not so ignorant. I noticed mini-splits jammed into all sorts
of unlikely spaces on homes and commercial buildings.

AFAIK, all mini-splits are made for fixed use, so I don't know how they
would hold up in an RV. That said, you see plenty of window units built
into RV's and they seem to do just fine!

Vaughn

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per vaughn:

advantages (or even existance) of mini-splits

What is the advantage over a window unit?

 

[Neon John]

I recently installed a little mini-split in my bedroom.. What an amazing
concept! Even though ours is not an inverter model, it is still about 20%
more efficient than any window unit we can buy. It is so quiet, that we
tend to forget that it is running! Amazingly, ours is designed so that you
only need to install mains power to the outside unit. The fan on the inside
unit runs off of 40 volts DC and is fed through the low voltage control
cable.

I've installed any number of mini-splits. I'm interested in this case in the
application to an RV since that's what I'm considering and because that's what
the OP said he'd done.

Why do we need a separate AC in our bedroom? Two reasons: First, because
of the vaulted ceiling design of our house there is no elegant way to run
ductwork there from our central unit. So we have always used a window unit
in there, or just slept with the door wide open. Second, now that we are
empty-nesters there is no need to keep our whole house under air 24/7. At
night we only need cool our bedroom.

I have a seperate AC for my bedroom too. I like to sleep with the room at 60
or below and it makes no sense to try to cool the whole cabin. I'm currently
using a portable unit (the kind with a hose that carries the hot air out a
window) because I had it handy but I'm going to go with a mini-split next
summer.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
What do you call a blonde's dildo? Pneumatic tool.

 

[JohnB]

Stabil helps keep products in the gasoline from forming shellac.

Do you add Stabil or some other gas treatment to the gas/oil mixture to
compensate for the ethanol that is in the gasoline to keep from damaging
the
rubber seals in the fuel system, or is that a problem with this generator?

I know what it is normally used for, but I have seen several people
recommend it before to use in older small gas engines that were designed
before the ethanol was added to gasoline the way it is today because people
were having problems with the engines after starting to use the reformulated
gasoline with the ethanol added. Now, you don't have much of a choice in
what you can get as far as gasoline without ethanol, at least where I live.

 

[vaughn]

What is the advantage over a window unit?

First, you don't need a window! You only need a wall opening big enough
for the tubing, the control cable and the drain line. So they are
particularly good for rooms that do not have a convenient window, or if you
live in a neighborhood where window units are not allowed (common in FL).
The second advantage is (these days anyhow) higher efficiency compared to a
window unit. Typically, mini-splits will be quieter than window units.

Here in hurrincane country, getting rid of window units nets me one less
task to prepare the house for the blow.

The major disatdvantage of mini-splits over window shakers is cost. xx

Vaughn

 

[Neon John]

Per vaughn:

What is the advantage over a window unit?

SEER 9, maybe 10 for a window unit. Up to SEER 20 or thereabouts for inverter
minisplits. Second advantage is that every minisplit that I've dealt with has
been almost silent in operation. NO fan roar nor compressor rattle.

A not so minor consideration too, is that a window isn't occupied.

The lone disadvantage is the price. They're quite expensive for the capacity.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Better to pass boldly into that other world in the full glory of some passion
than fade and wither dismally with age. -Joyce