microcontroller flash memory question

[Henry]

In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the
staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000
times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day
(experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not
give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might
need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one
site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all
microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that
flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how
digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times.
Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million
times.

I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems
pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented.

Henry

 

[Rich Grise]

In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the
staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000
times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day
(experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not
give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might
need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one
site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all
microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that
flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how
digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times.
Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million
times.

I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems
pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented.

Some of these links might help:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=flash+memory+cycles+lifetime

Another thing you could do is write your firmware better, so you don't
have to take so many debug cycles.

Have Fun!
Rich

 

[Henry]

Some of these links might help:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=flash+memory+cycles+lifetime

Another thing you could do is write your firmware better, so you don't
have to take so many debug cycles.

Have Fun!
Rich

I propose that just answering with a Google search be a new net-etiquette
rule. First Google searches tend to be filled with a list of sites where one
site is just a copy of another (sometimes exact copy) over and over again.
And if its bad information, you simply get the same bad information repeated
over and over. And there are lots of information that simply is not on
Google. Its also just obnoxious.

Ussually I ignore such Google search "answers". But out of curiosity I took
a chance. Sure enough, the links added nothing to what I already know from
my own searches and even what I stated in my question. Again, this is why I
tend to ignore such replies and will continue to do so in the future.

Henry

 

[Brian Gregory [UK]]

In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the
staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000
times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a
day
(experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not
give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might
need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one
site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all
microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that
flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about
how
digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times.
Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million
times.

I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It
seems
pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented.

Henry

There are no rules.
You need to refer to detailed data sheets for each device you are interested
in.

 

[Rich Grise]

I propose that just answering with a Google search be a new net-etiquette
rule. First Google searches tend to be filled with a list of sites where one
site is just a copy of another (sometimes exact copy) over and over again.
And if its bad information, you simply get the same bad information repeated
over and over. And there are lots of information that simply is not on
Google. Its also just obnoxious.

No, what's obnoxious is googlegroupies waltzing into the newsgroup (which
existed a long time before google was even a gleam in what's-his-name's
eye), demanding answers to questions that could have already been answered
if the kiddie had bothered to check the left side of google first.

If you're too lazy/stubborn to even do that minuscule amount of research,
then you simply don't deserve that kind of hand-holding from people who do
know their elbow from a hole in the ground.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Henry]

several months is about right I think the intention is that after you get
it doing the task you want you leav it installed and buy a fresh one to
play with... if the part costs less than $10 that's not a big issue...


Some can only be programmed once.

some trainer kits use external static ram to hold the program so you can
reprogram any number of times. (but loose the program when the power goes off)

IIRC the basic stamp uses an interpreter in ROM to execute code loaded into
its EEPROM, EEPROM seems to offer more rewrites than flash.

Bye.
Jasen

Thanks. Now that is more useful. The one site was Atom-something. (I've been
to so many sites I have lost track. Also my eyesight is going somewhat as I
get tired reading from the screen to easily these days.) The microcontroller
I am considering is the basic stamp. At $30-$40 I want to know if I need to
buy an extra for when I get done "experimenting" with the first.

Thanks,
Henry

 

[Henry]

There are no rules.
You need to refer to detailed data sheets for each device you are interested
in.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
[email protected]
To email me remove the letter vee.

Is that information in the datasheets?

For example, when I downloaded the datasheets for the HT12E/D encoder and
decoders (that someone here suggested for me one photo related project)
there was no mention of how long it took the devices to operate. So after
the waste of a purchase it turns out that the decoder's delay (about 1/10
sec) to decode made it useless for me intended purpose. I had previously
sent the company a question and got no reply.

Decades ago there was much more curtsy and expertise in getting questions
answered from manufactures. Even the old SN7400 series chips had switching
speeds listed (usually in the tens of ns.) But now it seems that there is a
"buy it and try it, if it doesn't work, tough luck" attitude in the world.

Henry

 

[Henry]

No, what's obnoxious is googlegroupies waltzing into the newsgroup (which
existed a long time before google was even a gleam in what's-his-name's
eye), demanding answers to questions that could have already been answered
if the kiddie had bothered to check the left side of google first.

If you're too lazy/stubborn to even do that minuscule amount of research,
then you simply don't deserve that kind of hand-holding from people who do
know their elbow from a hole in the ground.

Thanks,
Rich

First of all I am not completely sure I understand some of your message.

Yes, Google is recent. I have been on the Internet long before there was the
WWW, when the newsgroups were some of the best ways to get information that
was otherwise difficult to find. I dont find Google all that useful. There
is too much repeated and sometimes bad information out there. Rich, are you
referring to yourself as the "googlegroupy?" Because it was you that posted
the Google search link, not me. I dont know about you, but I was in college
back when the Internet was only experimental protocols like Bitnet.

Now, on another discussion list I did got some "off the record" type
information that is somewhat useful from an old friend that now works at
CMU's robotics lab. I will share that comment in another post.

About the rest of your reply, well you assume far too much and I am not even
going to waist anymore of my time with you. You want to act like a child,
then I will ignore you like one.

Henry

 

[Henry]

Here is some information I got from an old friend that now works at a
robotics lab. I asked my question in other places.

*****
I don't program, so I don't use these. Older small robot projects used the
basic stamp; they are apparently simple to program but not very fast. PIC
controllers are used in several of my more complex robots, but I hear
grumbling every time some grad student needs to write code that talks to
them. (Admittedly, if they are writing code at that level, it *isn't* what
they are doing research on, it is just to get the robots to work; the
students I work with are doing research on planners, not actuators.)
*****

Now that has some useful, real experience, type information that you dont
find on manufacturers web sites.

Henry

 

[diehard67]

I'm not sure what micro controller u are using but did u consider a
simulater

proteus can simulate sevrol diferint pic microcontrolers and no limite on
rewrights, lol

it should be able to do realtime for all but the most complex designs

http://www.labcenter.co.uk/index_uk.htm

I hope this is usfull

 

[Henry]

I have considered a simulator. That might work out some bugs. But when
interfacing with real world devices, there is nothing like testing with the
real thing. If the simulators are free, then I might consider one learning
the programming language. But, again, as I learned over a decade ago when I
did some process control programming with Fortran on VAX/VMS systems, there
is nothing like testing with the real hardware.

THanks, though.

Henry

 

[Henry]

Finally heard back from Parallax (manufacturer of the Basic Stamp
microcontroller.) They claim that their microcontrollers are good for up to
10 million re-programming cycles.

FYI,
Henry