Microcontroller development environment with C/C++ compiler support for a freshman mechatronic stude

[Guest]

What is the best (not expensive) microcontroller development environment
with C/C++ compiler support for a freshman mechatronic student?

 

[Wing Fong Wong]

What is the best (not expensive) microcontroller development environment
with C/C++ compiler support for a freshman mechatronic student?

I personally like Microchips PICs and I've been using them for yonks but
unless you go for low end chips, C compilers cost a fair bit. I don't know
how much dev kits cost for these chips cos I only ever buy just the
microcontrollers.

There are these new PICAXE chips. Extremely easy to use. It doesn't
support C or C++ only its own BASIC variant. But interms of learning
curve, this chip is definately the easiest. The smallest chip(picaxe08) +
dev board costs $30 at altronics or for something bigger, the picaxe18 set
cost $50.

Finally there are the AVRs. There is a free C compiler available for this
chip dev boards for these chips aren't really all that expensive either.
You probably can get started on AVRs for well under $100.

 

[Wing Fong Wong]

I personally like Microchips PICs and I've been using them for yonks but
unless you go for low end chips, C compilers cost a fair bit. I don't know
how much dev kits cost for these chips cos I only ever buy just the
microcontrollers.

There are these new PICAXE chips. Extremely easy to use. It doesn't
support C or C++ only its own BASIC variant. But interms of learning
curve, this chip is definately the easiest. The smallest chip(picaxe08) +
dev board costs $30 at altronics or for something bigger, the picaxe18 set
cost $50.

Finally there are the AVRs. There is a free C compiler available for this
chip dev boards for these chips aren't really all that expensive either.
You probably can get started on AVRs for well under $100.

I know its bad form to follow up you own posts but...

There is also a book called "Experiments In Mechatronics Using Picaxe
Chips" which is also sold at altronics(www.altronics.com.au). All the more
reason to use a PICAXE.

 

[David L. Jones]

What is the best (not expensive) microcontroller development environment
with C/C++ compiler support for a freshman mechatronic student?

As always, it depends on your needs.

The C compilers for the PICs are very good, but they are relatively
expensive. There isn't much at the low cost end. Forget any rubbish you
hear about the PIC not being suitable for C.

The Atmels have a slightly bigger range of lower cost C compilers, but
you get what you pay for. A lot of people recon that because the Atmels
have a GCC compiler for free that makes this the platform of choice. In
reality it isn't easy to use and you have to know what you are doing.
Unless you have a lot of GCC C experience (like writing scripts etc
yourself), I'd go for one of the commercial compilers like CodeVision.
Infinitely easier to use and you get results from day one.

There are others like say the Zilog series which offer very cheap
development systems with C compilers, but these aren't as popular.

The PIC and Atmel are the two hottest 8bit solutions at the moment, and
you'll get plenty of online forum support for both.

If you are after more horsepower than an 8bit micro can provide and
think you might need a real-time C kernel, then you might like to look
at the Rabbit series of processors. The developments kits are
reasonably low cost and the come with a real-time C compiler which is
easy to use.

Dave

 

[Jezwold]

If you used sdcc which is a freeware ansi complient C compiler for
8052/avr/pic/z80 processors then you would have the best of all
possible worlds with a compiler which is generaly well behaved and
allows you to pick your processor to suit the job.

 

[Wing Fong Wong]

The C compilers for the PICs are very good, but they are relatively
expensive. There isn't much at the low cost end. Forget any rubbish you
hear about the PIC not being suitable for C.

There is a free c compiler for lower end PIC, PICC-Lite by Hitech is very good
and compiles to quite small code. Personally, most of my coding is in
assembly since I can't afford to pay for a compiler that supports the
newer chips.

--


Wing Wong.
Webpage: http://wing.ucc.asn.au

FAQs about me:
Is this related to homework?
Definately not
Are you and undergrad?
Yes
Are you looking for work and do you want to work for us?
Yes, but only if it pays.
Are you insane?
No, not at the moment.

 

[[email protected]]

According to the offical SDCC site:
AVR and gbz80 ports are no longer maintained.
Does it work well enough for AVR, or is it hopeless?

 

[Richard]

According to the offical SDCC site:
AVR and gbz80 ports are no longer maintained.
Does it work well enough for AVR, or is it hopeless?

An indirect reply:

I know that SDCC works well for 8051, and I know that WinAVR (GCC) works
well for AVR. There will be little code that cannot be compiled with both
and nearly all such code will be processor specific anyway (the IO routines
for example) - it should be easy to switch between compilers with the same
code base [I already do this].

Regards,
Richard.

http://www.FreeRTOS.org

 

[Chris Hills]

I personally like Microchips PICs and I've been using them for yonks

but they are strange compared to anything else.

but
unless you go for low end chips, C compilers cost a fair bit.

No true at all. The academic versions are free then there is GNU...

I don't know
how much dev kits cost for these chips cos I only ever buy just the
microcontrollers.

50 USD up.;

There are these new PICAXE chips. Extremely easy to use. It doesn't
support C or C++ only its own BASIC variant. But interms of learning
curve, this chip is definately the easiest. The smallest chip(picaxe08) +
dev board costs $30 at altronics or for something bigger, the picaxe18 set
cost $50.

Finally there are the AVRs. There is a free C compiler available for this
chip dev boards for these chips aren't really all that expensive either.
You probably can get started on AVRs for well under $100.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ [email protected] www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

 

[Chris Hills]

As always, it depends on your needs.
The C compilers for the PICs are very good, but they are relatively
expensive. There isn't much at the low cost end. Forget any rubbish you
hear about the PIC not being suitable for C.

The Atmels

8051, AVR or ARM?

There are others like say the Zilog series which offer very cheap
development systems with C compilers, but these aren't as popular.

The PIC and Atmel are the two hottest 8bit solutions at the moment, and
you'll get plenty of online forum support for both.

You have got to be joking... They are both limited range single source
compared to the 600+ version of the 51 family from the 30+ silicon
vendors.

Not only are there free c compilers for the 51 there are also free/cheap
academic versions of the commercial compilers.

If you are after more horsepower than an 8bit micro can provide and
think you might need a real-time C kernel, then you might like to look
at the Rabbit series of processors. The developments kits are
reasonably low cost and the come with a real-time C compiler which is
easy to use.

Or go to the industry standard ARM7. ARM is so comon it has been called
"the 32bit 8051" (not the 32 bit PIC or AVR)

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ [email protected] www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

 

[Chris S.]

As always, it depends on your needs.

The C compilers for the PICs are very good, but they are relatively
expensive. There isn't much at the low cost end. Forget any rubbish you
hear about the PIC not being suitable for C.

The Atmels have a slightly bigger range of lower cost C compilers, but
you get what you pay for. A lot of people recon that because the Atmels
have a GCC compiler for free that makes this the platform of choice. In
reality it isn't easy to use and you have to know what you are doing.
Unless you have a lot of GCC C experience (like writing scripts etc
yourself), I'd go for one of the commercial compilers like CodeVision.
Infinitely easier to use and you get results from day one.

I prefer GCC over the "polished" commerical compilers, even Atmel's own
IDE. Anyone who took an introductory C programming class in college
should have no problems using GCC for the AVR.

 

[David L. Jones]

8051, AVR or ARM?

Sorry, I meant AVR.

You have got to be joking... They are both limited range single source
compared to the 600+ version of the 51 family from the 30+ silicon
vendors.

No I am not joking. The PICs and the AVRs are two of the most poplaur
8bit solutions going around, especially for those starting out with
micros.
I am not saying that the PICs or AVRs are better than any other device,
that can be debated forever. Last I checked the PIC was the worlds #1
selling 8bit micro.
Newbies don't care about having 30+ silicon vendors, they care about
what's popular, what's easy to use, and what support they are going to
get.
You can get support for any micro of course, but the PICs and AVRs seem
to be the two micros of choice for beginners these days, with tons of
new books, beginners development tools, traning systems, web sites,
forums, and other support available.

The 51 family is just not a popular solution for first timers any more.

In fact, the "PIC" has almost become synonomous with microcontrollers
these days to those not entirely in the know.

Not only are there free c compilers for the 51 there are also free/cheap
academic versions of the commercial compilers.

Yes there are, just like many other micros as well.

Or go to the industry standard ARM7. ARM is so comon it has been called
"the 32bit 8051" (not the 32 bit PIC or AVR)

The ARM is not common at the low end of the market, esp for beginners.
Dave

 

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

Do not forget MSP430 from TI.

Rudolf

Sorry, I meant AVR.


No I am not joking. The PICs and the AVRs are two of the most poplaur
8bit solutions going around, especially for those starting out with
micros.
I am not saying that the PICs or AVRs are better than any other device,
that can be debated forever. Last I checked the PIC was the worlds #1
selling 8bit micro.
Newbies don't care about having 30+ silicon vendors, they care about
what's popular, what's easy to use, and what support they are going to
get.
You can get support for any micro of course, but the PICs and AVRs seem
to be the two micros of choice for beginners these days, with tons of
new books, beginners development tools, traning systems, web sites,
forums, and other support available.

The 51 family is just not a popular solution for first timers any more.

In fact, the "PIC" has almost become synonomous with microcontrollers
these days to those not entirely in the know.


Yes there are, just like many other micros as well.


The ARM is not common at the low end of the market, esp for beginners.
Dave

 

[DS]

Hi

I am just a newbie, but I know of a new e-book for sale ( USD$ 29.95 ) that
uses the AVR Butterfly board ( USD$20 from Digi-key.com ), I bought 3 of
them! which is a credit card sized board AVR 169 that has a 5-way joystick,
lightsensor, 4 Mbit flash memory, temperature sensor, speaker, LCD, and
RS-232.

I am waiting for the hard-copy version to be released. The author teaches
you how to install and use the free WinAVR C-based development environment.

All you need is some additional components from an electronics store (
listed at the back of the book) and you have all you need to get started.
Check it out at:

http://www.smileymicros.com/

For Microchip PICmicro, there are free (limited to 2kB hex code) C (new),
BASIC and Pascal compilers from
http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/compilers/compilers.htm
There are also free online books ( a good one for assembler ). A very good
online forum for the BASIC and Pascal compilers.

Hope this helps.


Cheers

Dale

According to the offical SDCC site:
AVR and gbz80 ports are no longer maintained.
Does it work well enough for AVR, or is it hopeless?

An indirect reply:

I know that SDCC works well for 8051, and I know that WinAVR (GCC) works
well for AVR. There will be little code that cannot be compiled with both
and nearly all such code will be processor specific anyway (the IO routines
for example) - it should be easy to switch between compilers with the same
code base [I already do this].

Regards,
Richard.

http://www.FreeRTOS.org

 

[Wing Fong Wong]

Hi

I am just a newbie, but I know of a new e-book for sale ( USD$ 29.95 ) that
uses the AVR Butterfly board ( USD$20 from Digi-key.com ), I bought 3 of
them! which is a credit card sized board AVR 169 that has a 5-way joystick,
lightsensor, 4 Mbit flash memory, temperature sensor, speaker, LCD, and
RS-232.

I am waiting for the hard-copy version to be released. The author teaches
you how to install and use the free WinAVR C-based development environment.

All you need is some additional components from an electronics store (
listed at the back of the book) and you have all you need to get started.
Check it out at:

http://www.smileymicros.com/

For Microchip PICmicro, there are free (limited to 2kB hex code) C (new),
BASIC and Pascal compilers from
http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/compilers/compilers.htm
There are also free online books ( a good one for assembler ). A very good
online forum for the BASIC and Pascal compilers.

Hope this helps.


Cheers

Dale

Olimex sells come AVR dev boards too. For about the same price also,
about $15USD. www.olimex.com

Wing Fong Wong

 

[Roger Lascelles]

What is the best (not expensive) microcontroller development environment
with C/C++ compiler support for a freshman mechatronic student?

1. Do you need ICE : In Circuit Emulator ? This is hardware which lets you
stop your program at the places you choose and look at your variables. If
you are a newbie or in a hurry, or need insurance, an ICE is required. The
alternative is "Crash and Burn", where you write some code, fiddle until it
works, write some more. People say they don't need an ICE, but I would not
pay someone to spend days finding a bug by trial and error.

2. Only the bigger chips do C++, because of required code memory.

That leaves C for the smaller chips. Let me share a secret : programmer
productivity and quality when using C (and C++) is fairly low, ie you take
more time to produce code with more bugs. This is to do with the C language
itself. There may be screams of outrage from others on this group, but you
can save brain cells, time and quality by using Pascal or even a good
compiled Basic. Don't be too proud.


3. Get the most powerful chip you can : the most RAM, FLASH, EEPROM, speed,
timers, peripherals, ports etc. You aren't going to make 1000 of these, so
saving $50 and spending 2 months extra time is silly.

You can't compare microcontrollers by comparing crystal speed - for example,
the 8051 derivatives are all slow - even the 25 MHz pipelined chips, because
the 8051 has a brain dead instruction set.


4. I am getting a good run from the Atmel AVR chips.

The free GCC compiler is easy to install and use. Google for WinAVR and you
can download the compiler and editor and be running. It is good.

For $450 you can buy the JTAG ICE for AVR - a real In Circuit Emulator.

The AVRs have so much grunt that I write all my interrupt handlers in C.
Not a line of assembler anywhere.


5. Another suggestion altogether : put an old PC motherboard in your
project and forget about microcontrollers. ADC and digital I/O cards for
ISA bus are cheap and easy to program. Program it in Turbo Pascal for DOS
or C++. Easy to debug and fast development.

Roger

 

[Johnny]

What is the best (not expensive) microcontroller development environment
with C/C++ compiler support for a freshman mechatronic student?

Get AVR studio which is a free download from Atmel web site. AVR
studio does not include a C compiler (only assembler) but is used for
souce level debugging of C code or Assembly code. A STK500 prototype
board from Atmel is a low cost option to program the AVR devices. A
JTAG debugger is a more expensive option which will also support
in-circuit debugging.

For C compiler, I suggest Imagecraft is excellent value for money and
works quite well with AVR studio for simulation / debugging. There is
a 45 day evauation version at www.imagecraft.com

regards,
Johnny.

 

[Wing Fong Wong]

No I am not joking. The PICs and the AVRs are two of the most poplaur
8bit solutions going around, especially for those starting out with
micros.

I can say that we use AVRs at work.

 

[Wing Fong Wong]

1. Do you need ICE : In Circuit Emulator ? This is hardware which lets you
stop your program at the places you choose and look at your variables. If
you are a newbie or in a hurry, or need insurance, an ICE is required. The
alternative is "Crash and Burn", where you write some code, fiddle until it
works, write some more. People say they don't need an ICE, but I would not
pay someone to spend days finding a bug by trial and error.

I like using a simulator and simlate on computer. The one that comes with
the atmel chip works quite well for my puposes. I'm not paid enough to
afford an ICE. I envy those who have access to such hardware.

 

[Johnny]

The ARM is not common at the low end of the market, esp for beginners.
Dave

With the Philips LPC210X series in the last year, and also with the
Atmel SAM7 series, the costs of the ARM7 development tools and
compilers for ARM devices continue to come down. It won't be long
before ARM7 will make a cost effective platform for learning of
embedded computing. They will start to make Rabbit micro look very
out of date which it actualy already is. PIC 16 series... Don't even
mention it.

regards,
Johnny.