laptop to micro interface (simple)...such a thing?

[Thomas Magma]

Hi all,

I have a black box with a microcontroller in it. I am trying to figure out
what is the simplest way to talk to the micro using a modern laptop. Most
laptops nowadays don't come with a RS232 port anymore. It seems like a huge
learning curve to use a USB interfacing chip, USB drivers and learn USB
protocols. So what is the easiest approach to exchanging bits between the
laptop and a microcontroller nowadays?

Thanks,
Thomas Magma

 

[OBones]

USB to RS232 converter

 

[Luhan]

Hi all,

I have a black box with a microcontroller in it. I am trying to figure out
what is the simplest way to talk to the micro using a modern laptop. Most
laptops nowadays don't come with a RS232 port anymore. It seems like a huge
learning curve to use a USB interfacing chip, USB drivers and learn USB
protocols. So what is the easiest approach to exchanging bits between the
laptop and a microcontroller nowadays?

Or, a plug-in card with RS232.

Luhan

 

[Thomas Magma]

USB to RS232 converter

On the surface this might appear to be an easy solution (about as easy as
you typed and sent it), but USB to RS232 converters come with OEM
installable drivers with confusing or no interfacing APIs. Plus, if your
"black box" is to become a product, it means you have to purchase,
distribute and explain how to install these OEM drivers onto an end users
laptop. Drivers and hardware that might not be supported by the OEM
throughout the life of your product.

Thomas Magma

 

[Tim Auton]

I have a black box with a microcontroller in it. I am trying to figure out
what is the simplest way to talk to the micro using a modern laptop. Most
laptops nowadays don't come with a RS232 port anymore. It seems like a huge
learning curve to use a USB interfacing chip, USB drivers and learn USB
protocols. So what is the easiest approach to exchanging bits between the
laptop and a microcontroller nowadays?

There are many USB-serial converter ICs which are supposed to be pretty
straigtforward to use. The drivers make them appear as a serial port in
your OS and the uC end is just a UART. The same ICs are used in plug-in
USB-serial converter dongles and modules. I've only ever used the
dongles, but I did investigate the other options a while back.

From memory, FTDI, Prolific and Silicon Labs all offer solutions. There
will be others a web search ("usb uart" or "usb serial") away.

For absolute maximum ease, a USB-serial dongle is pretty much plug &
play, but it is an extra bit of hardware.

If you want something integrated into the 'black box' one of the ICs
would do. If you want to avoid surface-mount, something like this:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?sku=1146037

might be attractive.


Tim

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

On the surface this might appear to be an easy solution (about as easy as
you typed and sent it), but USB to RS232 converters come with OEM
installable drivers with confusing or no interfacing APIs.

What's "confusing" about a serial port? It looks like a serial port, it behaves
like a serial port - if this is not what you want then explain what you *do*
want.

<guess mode>

If you want the luser to plug the thing into luser-level hardware and also have
it work *then* you *do* have to provide an USB interface. "Nobody" in luserland
understands serial ports anymore; "No-one" can be bothered to learn and IMO
there will be enough deviancy between luser installs of windows that writing the
installer and getting that to work with a reasonable low failure rate will be
much more work than getting your end of USB to work (at your end at least you
*know and control* the layers of shite that you have to burrow through).

Plus, if your
"black box" is to become a product, it means you have to purchase,
distribute and explain how to install these OEM drivers onto an end users
laptop. Drivers and hardware that might not be supported by the OEM
throughout the life of your product.

So!?! .... Then you might get to sell "Support" and "Upgrades " also for a
regular fee. Microsoft and thousands of others make USD Billions off exactly
that business model (of first selling a flawed product, then charge for fixing
it while introducing new flaws). So might you. It all depends on why and how
badly the customer will want your box.

Remember, the *primary directive* of any successful business is to solve the
*owner's* problems. "Solving *customers* problems profitably" - as they say in
business books to delude the weak - is merely a side effect from that!

 

[OBones]

On the surface this might appear to be an easy solution (about as easy as
you typed and sent it), but USB to RS232 converters come with OEM
installable drivers with confusing or no interfacing APIs. Plus, if your
"black box" is to become a product, it means you have to purchase,
distribute and explain how to install these OEM drivers onto an end users
laptop. Drivers and hardware that might not be supported by the OEM
throughout the life of your product.

FWIW, there is a basic driver for the FTDIChip series in all the recent
versions of Windows...

 

[Leon]

Hi all,

I have a black box with a microcontroller in it. I am trying to figure out
what is the simplest way to talk to the micro using a modern laptop. Most
laptops nowadays don't come with a RS232 port anymore. It seems like a huge
learning curve to use a USB interfacing chip, USB drivers and learn USB
protocols. So what is the easiest approach to exchanging bits between the
laptop and a microcontroller nowadays?

Thanks,
Thomas Magma

Does the black box have any sort of interface?

Leon

 

[Jeff Findley]

There are many USB-serial converter ICs which are supposed to be pretty
straigtforward to use. The drivers make them appear as a serial port in
your OS and the uC end is just a UART. The same ICs are used in plug-in
USB-serial converter dongles and modules. I've only ever used the
dongles, but I did investigate the other options a while back.

From memory, FTDI, Prolific and Silicon Labs all offer solutions. There
will be others a web search ("usb uart" or "usb serial") away.

For absolute maximum ease, a USB-serial dongle is pretty much plug &
play, but it is an extra bit of hardware.

If you want something integrated into the 'black box' one of the ICs
would do. If you want to avoid surface-mount, something like this:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?sku=1146037

might be attractive.

I just play with electronics as a hobby, but I noticed that Spark Fun
Electronics carries three different USB to UART chips and one USB to FIFO
chip.

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=51_29

Scroll down to the bottom.

Also, if you're going to design anything new, I've been playing with USB
enabled PIC's. PIC18F4550, PIC18F4455, PIC18F2550, and PIC18F2455 all have
built in USB and there is PIC code that makes this look like a serial port
on the PIC side (and on the PC side), which would seem to make migration of
a serial port interfaced PIC design to a USB port interfaced PIC design
easier on both the PIC and PC sides of things.

Jeff

 

[Tim Auton]

On the surface this might appear to be an easy solution (about as easy as
you typed and sent it), but USB to RS232 converters come with OEM
installable drivers with confusing or no interfacing APIs.

APIs? I suppose if you don't want the virtual serial port to appear
anywhere you might want some other kind of API, but otherwise you just
use the ones in the OS for accessing seial ports.

Plus, if your
"black box" is to become a product, it means you have to purchase,
distribute and explain how to install these OEM drivers onto an end users
laptop. Drivers and hardware that might not be supported by the OEM
throughout the life of your product.

So what are the solutions requiring nothing be installed? An ethernet
port and Telnet? Some hideous hack where the device appears a USB Mass
Storage device even though it isn't? Not very user-friendly and I expect
laptops will have USB ports for longer than ethernet ports (which I
could see being eliminated from some models with the increasing
prevalence and speed of WiFi).


Tim

 

[Don McKenzie]

Hi all,

I have a black box with a microcontroller in it. I am trying to figure out
what is the simplest way to talk to the micro using a modern laptop. Most
laptops nowadays don't come with a RS232 port anymore. It seems like a huge
learning curve to use a USB interfacing chip, USB drivers and learn USB
protocols. So what is the easiest approach to exchanging bits between the
laptop and a microcontroller nowadays?

Thanks,
Thomas Magma

Have a look at:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/home.php?cat=313

there are many solutions there that use popular chips.

Don...


--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html

Micro,TTL,USB to 1.5" color LCD http://www.dontronics.com/micro-lcd.html
USB,RS232 or TTL to VGA Monitor http://www.dontronics.com/micro-vga.html
World's smallest USB 2 TTL Conv http://www.dontronics.com/micro-usb.html

 

[jasen]

Hi all,

I have a black box with a microcontroller in it. I am trying to figure out
what is the simplest way to talk to the micro using a modern laptop. Most
laptops nowadays don't come with a RS232 port anymore. It seems like a huge
learning curve to use a USB interfacing chip, USB drivers and learn USB
protocols. So what is the easiest approach to exchanging bits between the
laptop and a microcontroller nowadays?

use one of those usb-to-serial adaptor modules.

 

[jasen]

On the surface this might appear to be an easy solution (about as easy as
you typed and sent it), but USB to RS232 converters come with OEM
installable drivers with confusing or no interfacing APIs.

not this one:

http://dynamix.co.nz/index.html?VS=p&G=BF-810&P=USB800&ID=3794210

Worked out of the box with linux.

probably the same with any recent version of windows.

All it is is a standard usb-to-serial converter chip and a rs232
transceiver.

Bye.
Jasen