Is the Raspberry Pi real at that price?

[Don McKenzie]

Is the Raspberry Pi real at that price?

http://www.raspberrypi.org/
http://twitter.com/#!/raspberry_pi

I can't help but think when you sell 10K pieces of an item at bargain basement prices, (and in a single day), and in
advance of having the products, that there may be something very wrong.

They have entered into licensed manufacture partnerships with two British companies, Premier Farnell and RS Components.
That means there has to be a dealer margin. If you can retail it at $25, then how much did it cost wholesale?

I may be barking up the wrong tree, but am I one of the few sensing something may be very wrong with this deal?

Have a look at what Tsvetan from Olimex said in a forum thread about it here:
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4748&PN=1

Anyone have insider information that what I am saying is completely off the mark?
Comments?

Of course, If I am off the mark, this will be more free advertising for them.


Cheers Don...

========================


--
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

 

[petrus bitbyter]

Is the Raspberry Pi real at that price?

http://www.raspberrypi.org/
http://twitter.com/#!/raspberry_pi

I can't help but think when you sell 10K pieces of an item at bargain
basement prices, (and in a single day), and in advance of having the
products, that there may be something very wrong.

They have entered into licensed manufacture partnerships with two British
companies, Premier Farnell and RS Components.
That means there has to be a dealer margin. If you can retail it at $25,
then how much did it cost wholesale?

I may be barking up the wrong tree, but am I one of the few sensing
something may be very wrong with this deal?

Have a look at what Tsvetan from Olimex said in a forum thread about it
here:
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4748&PN=1

Anyone have insider information that what I am saying is completely off
the mark?
Comments?

Of course, If I am off the mark, this will be more free advertising for
them.


Cheers Don...

========================


--
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

The current version is $35,-. The $25,- version has been announced however.

petrus bitbyter

 

[TTman]

Is the Raspberry Pi real at that price?

http://www.raspberrypi.org/
http://twitter.com/#!/raspberry_pi

I can't help but think when you sell 10K pieces of an item at bargain
basement prices, (and in a single day), and in advance of having the
products, that there may be something very wrong.

They have entered into licensed manufacture partnerships with two British
companies, Premier Farnell and RS Components.
That means there has to be a dealer margin. If you can retail it at $25,
then how much did it cost wholesale?

I may be barking up the wrong tree, but am I one of the few sensing
something may be very wrong with this deal?

Have a look at what Tsvetan from Olimex said in a forum thread about it
here:
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4748&PN=1

Anyone have insider information that what I am saying is completely off
the mark?
Comments?

Of course, If I am off the mark, this will be more free advertising for
them.


Cheers Don...

========================

I see it as a cunning plan to wipe out M/soft and all those ancient PCs...

 

[petrus bitbyter]

I see it as a cunning plan to wipe out M/soft and all those ancient PCs...

It certainly attacks some monopolistic behavior of both processor en
software giants. As it will not do Windows, it may even become a nail in the
MS-coffin. But the design is too light for serious processing power. I
merely expect it to become a component more or less like the microprocessor
started.

petrus bitbyter

 

[Don McKenzie]

Well, you have the "there has to be a dealer margin" bit wrong, RS/Farnell are selling for more than $35, so their
margin goes on top.

Thanks Jim, so the $35 price it is openly advertised at, is the wholesale price, not the retail price?
Who else advertises like that to the public?

http://au.element14.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-pcba/sbc-raspberry-pi-model-b/dp/2081185
I kept getting forced to the local AU site, however with local dollar conversion, the $38AUD retail becomes $40.77USD

So that is $5.77USD profit. A markup margin of 16.49%.

Perhaps someone can do the sums from a US site.

Cheers Don...

==============================


--
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

 

[Don McKenzie]

How much do you image the real manufacturing cost of, say, an Android
smartphone is ?

geoff

I would imagine it could be in the range of 5% to 20% of the retail price, but it must reach the wholesaler at a price
he can make a living out of it, otherwise he wouldn't be in business.

Cheers Don...

=========================


--
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

 

[Nico Coesel]

Actually, even Apple isn't able to command that sort of markup with iPhones!

Here's an article that'll give you some more concrete numbers:
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/03/02/what-doth-it-profit-an-iphone .
As you'll see, most phones cost some 60-70% of their selling price.

The margins in consumer electronics are very thin; it works because
there is so much volume. There aren't that many wholesalers left anyway
-- at least in terms of volume, I think it's safe to say the vast
majority of electronics goes straight from the manufacturer to a
retailer; Wal*Mart and Best Buy aren't getting their phones from a
middleman, although some small mom & pop shop likely are.

Thats not entirely true. Shops like WM,BB and similar often have high
costs and usually are not cheap. They sell a few items below cost
price to appear cheap but with other things they most certainly are
not cheap. They are convenient because they have a large stock of many
items. Stock costs money. Smaller shops are cheaper in most cases if
they have what you need.

But then again, online shops are the future. Nowadays I even order
home improvement stuff online.

(Indeed... you sometimes hear small businessmen complain that their
costs for products from their wholesalers are more than the retail price
from Wal*Mart or Costco...)

That's not a 'small business man' that's someone who shouldn't be in
business in the first place.

 

[Chris Baird]

Don> Thanks Jim, so the $35 price it is openly advertised at, is the
Don> wholesale price, not the retail price? Who else advertises like
Don> that to the public?

How about actually bothering to read the RPi website and finding out
what it's about? It's not Yet Another Garage Businessman effort.

 

[Stephen Pelc]

Thanks Jim, so the $35 price it is openly advertised at, is the
wholesale price, not the retail price? Who else advertises like
that to the public?

The first batch of 10,000 units sold out in about 10 minutes according
to (sort of) reputable gossip. One of our people set up two PCs and
started pounding the refresh keys at the advertised time of 6a.m. He
still failed to get his order in.

I just got an email from one of the suppliers to place my pre-order
for a board from the second batch. Both suppliers are very reputable
and have both been in business for a very long time. Yes, I did place
my order for a Model B at a bit under £25, say less than USD 40.

I detect a note of "Not Invented Here" in some of the comments.
IMHO Raspberry Pi is a cause for celebration, not for whining.

Stephen

--
Stephen Pelc, [email protected]
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

 

[Grant Edwards]

I detect a note of "Not Invented Here" in some of the comments.
IMHO Raspberry Pi is a cause for celebration, not for whining.

This is Usenet -- where _everything_ is a cause for whining.

 

[Don McKenzie]

Don> Thanks Jim, so the $35 price it is openly advertised at, is the
Don> wholesale price, not the retail price? Who else advertises like
Don> that to the public?

How about actually bothering to read the RPi website and finding out
what it's about? It's not Yet Another Garage Businessman effort.

I did that Chris, and this is what it says about price:

How much will it cost?
The Model A will cost $25 and the Model B $35, plus local taxes.

==========================================

The text that you quoted of mine above, was brought about by another poster in a previous message, that suggested this
was the wholesale price, and the dealers would put their margin on top.

I suggested back to the poster that no one advertises at a wholesale price to the public. I also suggest you read the
message and quote me correctly including the text of the original poster, and please don't make up a version to suit
yourself.

I am not whining about the device, it looks good, but I am allowed to ask questions, or are questions banned these days.

Here is the feed back from potential Element14 customers:
http://www.element14.com/community/thread/17002?start=0&tstart=0

and from Raspberry Pi:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/723#comments

You will see that the comments on each group are almost the opposite.

Cheers Don...

========================


--
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

 

[Nico Coesel]

The first batch of 10,000 units sold out in about 10 minutes according
Hype?

I detect a note of "Not Invented Here" in some of the comments.
IMHO Raspberry Pi is a cause for celebration, not for whining.

There are loads of boards out there (some with better specs) for
reasonable prices based on SoCs for which you can download full
datasheets and user manuals. In the long run such a board will be much
more usefull.

 

[keithr]

I would imagine it could be in the range of 5% to 20% of the retail
price, but it must reach the wholesaler at a price he can make a living
out of it, otherwise he wouldn't be in business.

Cheers Don...

=========================

RS Australia has it listed at $50, which is probably about what you'd
have to pay to get a $35 item from the UK including shipping.

I will certainly get one as soon as I can, I'd like to see whether it
can run apache as a home web server and home automation machine.

A full Linux machine for $50 is disruptive technology, if it does
perform as the hype suggests, I see a lot of uses for it, and probably a
flood of imitators.

The PIC and Arduino boards certainly have their uses, but horse for
courses.

 

[SMS]

Is the Raspberry Pi real at that price?

http://www.raspberrypi.org/
http://twitter.com/#!/raspberry_pi

I can't help but think when you sell 10K pieces of an item at bargain
basement prices, (and in a single day), and in advance of having the
products, that there may be something very wrong.

They have entered into licensed manufacture partnerships with two
British companies, Premier Farnell and RS Components.
That means there has to be a dealer margin. If you can retail it at $25,
then how much did it cost wholesale?

I may be barking up the wrong tree, but am I one of the few sensing
something may be very wrong with this deal?

Have a look at what Tsvetan from Olimex said in a forum thread about it
here:
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4748&PN=1

Anyone have insider information that what I am saying is completely off
the mark?

Embedded processors are very inexpensive. $25 is not out of line, even
with healthy margins.

 

[TheGlimmerMan]

Really, disruptive technology? Is this really much less than the cost
of a smart cell phone which has a user interface and also makes phone
calls!

Rick

You cannot physically turn things on and off with that (the phone). All
you can do is control the devices which can (these devices).

His can switch relays on and off. The damned things do need a net
connection though.

So, look at say the ten times overpriced "industry" that was made by a
few for billiard halls to turn the lights on and off,and log play times.

Each "receiver/switch" was very expensive and each table needs one.
The software was expensive as well.

This would allow one to control any number of tables for a little over
$40 each. And you could author and perfect your own time logging
application. You could even put dimmers in and control the light level.

I could sell this, if pool had more popularity. Sadly, operating costs
have grown so much that the per hour rate for pool has gotten ridiculous.
They even charge per person now in some places instead of per table.

How truly sad. Bastards actually want to make money. It should be
popular though.

Dumb folks everywhere would rather give a bar money for liquor though.

Billiards should be more popular.

 

[WoolyBully]

I kinda doubt it -- Microsoft Windows 8 will run on ARM. Maybe not the
particular one on the Raspberry Pi, but certainly on plenty of other
inexpensive, similar chips.


Right -- by the time you turn it into a "real PC" (display, hard drive,
keyboard, touchpad, battery, case) and add some profit margins, I think
you're largely back to at least the $250-$350 "cheap laptop" that are
already quite common.

The cool thing about the Raspberry Pi is that it's quite hackable and
that it can be cheap by virtue of the fact that most everyone already
has a spare keyboard/mouse sitting around, can use some LCD they already
have, etc.

---Joel

Show me where your "cheap laptop" (or any laptop practically) has gpio
header or a readily available jtag header.

 

[TheGlimmerMan]

I was discussing with someone that the Pi could be used as a musical
instrument: add an inexpensive USB audio/MIDI interface plus some
software, hook up a MIDI controller keyboard, and you have a hardware
sampler/synthesizer that can stream mega or gigabyte sound "patches" off
the memory card. It could probably run the stage lighting if it's DMX
equipped. And you're not out a grand if someone spills their beer on
it, unlike a laptop.

Conformal coat it. After you hook everything up to it.

 

[Chris Baird]

How about actually bothering to read the RPi website and finding out

I did that Chris, and this is what it says about price:
How much will it cost? The Model A will cost $25 and the Model B $35,
plus local taxes.

You missed the part about the RPi Foundation being a non-profit
educationally-motivated effort, hurr.

Which'll trash the rip-off fake-Arduino you're trying to flog in your
latest get-rich-from-home scheme. Go whinge elsewhere.

 

[Martin Brown]

Is the Raspberry Pi real at that price?

http://www.raspberrypi.org/
http://twitter.com/#!/raspberry_pi

I can't help but think when you sell 10K pieces of an item at bargain
basement prices, (and in a single day), and in advance of having the
products, that there may be something very wrong.

They have entered into licensed manufacture partnerships with two
British companies, Premier Farnell and RS Components.
That means there has to be a dealer margin. If you can retail it at $25,
then how much did it cost wholesale?

It is retailing at £25 ($40). There is another rival development single
board of similar size and lesser capability for about £10 (but much less
sophisticated). At least part of the intention is educational to make
computing and electronics engineering more interesting to school
children. The existing UK syllabus churns out MickeySoft Office drone
users with no clue at all how PCs and software work. In a reference back
to the BBC Micro they have even called them Models A and B.

I may be barking up the wrong tree, but am I one of the few sensing
something may be very wrong with this deal?

I think they expect to sell a lot of them and since the opening day took
down both the major UK electronics suppliers websites they could well be
right. It is priced to allow every schoolchild to have one.

I reckon they called in a lot of favours to get it designed for maximum
capability, minimum cost and built for that price. I wish them good luck
with the project. We need to get more youngsters interested in
engineering at school as opposed to soft options "meedja studdis".

Brian Cox and Jim Alkalili have already turned round the decline of the
hard sciences. The former making Physics very "cool" at the moment!

Have a look at what Tsvetan from Olimex said in a forum thread about it
here:
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4748&PN=1

Anyone have insider information that what I am saying is completely off
the mark?
Comments?

Of course, If I am off the mark, this will be more free advertising for
them.

I expect there isn't a lot of margin but the price isn't completely
impossible either. Just look at the cheapest PC graphics cards.

If it becomes the new BBC Micro it will engage a new generation of
children in direct connection with real electronics and software at a
level where it can be relatively easily understood and played with.

 

[Don McKenzie]

You missed the part about the RPi Foundation being a non-profit
educationally-motivated effort, hurr.

No I read that Chris.

The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a UK registered charity (Registration Number 1129409)

Who controls Rasperry Pi?
Who controls Rasperry Pi foundation?
Who controls the CPU chip manufacturer?

Answer: Broadcom

That is the way I read it Chris. Please tell me if I am wrong.

Cheers Don...

====================

--
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.