is my $3,000 lcd tv dead?

[pete.nicks]

When I plug in the TV I get a solid red light followed by one blink,
then two quick blinks, then a steady series of blinks (all red).

I called Sharp and they directed me to a service center. I took the TV
in and was told something about the circuit boards that I didn't quite
understand. the service person didn't speak English very well so i
couldn't pinpoint with him the exact problem. But the gist of it was
that it wasn't worth it for him or me to fix it. The quote he gave me
was around $1000.

The TV is only three years old and I paid $3,000 for the thing, so I'm
trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with it and whether I can
get it fixed.

Any thoughts? Should I take it in to another service center for a
second opinion?...or does this problem sound like the unit is totaled?
for me, having to pay $1,000 means it is totaled.

any thoughts would be appreciated.

pete

 

[JANA]

These types of TV sets are mainly serviced by board replacement as very much
like a computer. The authorized service department would, have the service
manuals, access to original parts, proper training, and have the proper
setup facilities for the model of TV that you have.

A non authorized centre, if he can determine what is wrong with the set,
would most likely buy the board through a jobber, and most likely would not
go through the proper verification and calibration procedure. With a non
authorized service shop, your set would most likely be serviced at a lower
cost, but there is no guarantee about the service quality.

Typical repairs on large screen LCD and Plasma displays usually run from
about $600 to $1500 depending on the service required. If the panel itself
goes defective, the cost would be more than the TV is worth.

Take a look at the specs of the TV set, and see what a new one with the same
or better specs would cost before you decide to service the set. The prices
of these sets have dropped by a large amount in the last several years. They
also got a lot better.

Personaly, I would be buying a new TV set.

--

JANA
_____


When I plug in the TV I get a solid red light followed by one blink,
then two quick blinks, then a steady series of blinks (all red).

I called Sharp and they directed me to a service center. I took the TV
in and was told something about the circuit boards that I didn't quite
understand. the service person didn't speak English very well so i
couldn't pinpoint with him the exact problem. But the gist of it was
that it wasn't worth it for him or me to fix it. The quote he gave me
was around $1000.

The TV is only three years old and I paid $3,000 for the thing, so I'm
trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with it and whether I can
get it fixed.

Any thoughts? Should I take it in to another service center for a
second opinion?...or does this problem sound like the unit is totaled?
for me, having to pay $1,000 means it is totaled.

any thoughts would be appreciated.

pete

 

[Meat Plow]

When I plug in the TV I get a solid red light followed by one blink,
then two quick blinks, then a steady series of blinks (all red).

I called Sharp and they directed me to a service center. I took the TV
in and was told something about the circuit boards that I didn't quite
understand. the service person didn't speak English very well so i
couldn't pinpoint with him the exact problem. But the gist of it was
that it wasn't worth it for him or me to fix it. The quote he gave me
was around $1000.

The TV is only three years old and I paid $3,000 for the thing, so I'm
trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with it and whether I can
get it fixed.

Any thoughts? Should I take it in to another service center for a
second opinion?...or does this problem sound like the unit is totaled?
for me, having to pay $1,000 means it is totaled.

any thoughts would be appreciated.

Unfortunately, that price is probably correct. I would buy a new set since
that $3000.00 set you bought 3 years ago is probably priced at least 30
percent less these days.

This is one of those cases where an extended warranty for $150 /yr
probably would have been a really good idea. I just purchased a 32"
HDTV LCD set for my bedroom and purchased an extended warranty for
$169.00 for 3 years. It is in home service that covers everything
including broken pixels. This company has the best warranty on broken
pixels that I have ever heard of.

 

[Ivan]

When I plug in the TV I get a solid red light followed by one blink,
then two quick blinks, then a steady series of blinks (all red).

I called Sharp and they directed me to a service center. I took the TV
in and was told something about the circuit boards that I didn't quite
understand. the service person didn't speak English very well so i
couldn't pinpoint with him the exact problem. But the gist of it was
that it wasn't worth it for him or me to fix it. The quote he gave me
was around $1000.

The TV is only three years old and I paid $3,000 for the thing, so I'm
trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with it and whether I can
get it fixed.

Any thoughts? Should I take it in to another service center for a
second opinion?...or does this problem sound like the unit is totaled?
for me, having to pay $1,000 means it is totaled.

any thoughts would be appreciated.

Here in the UK I'm pretty certain that something costing that amount of
money which only lasted for three years could well attract the attention of
our trading standards people, the argument being for that amount of money
the expectation would be for it to have a lifespan of longer than three
years, irrespective of the manufacturer's guarantee.
Just a thought, but would it be worth investigating to see if anything in
the U.S. consumer protection legislation incorporated something similar?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

This is one of those cases where an extended warranty for $150 /yr
probably would have been a really good idea. I just purchased a 32"
HDTV LCD set for my bedroom and purchased an extended warranty
for $169.00 for 3 years. It is in home service that covers everything
including broken pixels. This company has the best warranty on
broken pixels that I have ever heard of.

Who be "this"?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Here in the UK I'm pretty certain that something costing that amount of
money which only lasted for three years could well attract the attention
of our trading standards people, the argument being for that amount of
money the expectation would be for it to have a lifespan of longer than
three years, irrespective of the manufacturer's guarantee.
Just a thought, but would it be worth investigating to see if anything in
the U.S. consumer protection legislation incorporated something similar?

It's called the warranty of implied merchantability, and is derived from
English common law. (The "warranty" in any user manual is not protection
for the customer, but an attempt to weaken or circumvent this implied
warranty.) Among other things, it says that a product must be of "average"
quality for that sort of product.

Clearly, any TV receiver should last rather longer than 3 years before
suffering a major breakdown. But you're going to have to twist Sharp's
corporate arm very hard to convince them they should provide a "reasonably
priced" repair. The law is on your side, but getting any company to
acknowledge it without a lawsuit is almost impossible.

The best approach is to discuss the issue with Sharp in a quiet but
insistent manner, emphasizing that the cost of repair is out of line with
the cost of the set and the amount of time you've owned it. If Sharp still
refuses to adjust he cost of repair to something more reasonable, tell them
they've lost a customer. And then make sure you never buy a Sharp product
again, not even a mechanical pencil. (That's where the company's name comes
from.)

I've had good luck recently. When a Silverlit X-UFO failed and the importer
had no replacement parts, I pointed out that they were legally obliged to
carry service parts, and they quickly replaced the entire unit. This is not
quite the same thing, but it shows what you can do when know how to protest.
I'm currently trying to convince Ryobi of the same thing, with respect to
battery packs..

My understanding is that, over the last 20 years, legislatures have watered
down the warranty of implied merchantability so that customers have fewer
protections.

One other point... What do service techs currently make? Given the high cost
of service, you'd think they were paid $25 to $30 an hour. Are they? (I can
hear the loud guffaws.)

 

[Ivan]

Clearly, any TV receiver should last rather longer than 3 years before
suffering a major breakdown. But you're going to have to twist Sharp's
corporate arm very hard to convince them they should provide a "reasonably
priced" repair. The law is on your side, but getting any company to
acknowledge it without a lawsuit is almost impossible.

The best approach is to discuss the issue with Sharp in a quiet but
insistent manner, emphasizing that the cost of repair is out of line with
the cost of the set and the amount of time you've owned it. If Sharp still
refuses to adjust he cost of repair to something more reasonable, tell
them
they've lost a customer. And then make sure you never buy a Sharp product
again, not even a mechanical pencil. (That's where the company's name
comes
from.)

I'm thinking that here the Trading standards could well take the case up for
you if they thought that you were within your rights, and then again there
is always the option of the small claims court, in conjunction with the
citizens advice bureau, which I presume must exist (or something similar) in
the U.S.

My understanding is that, over the last 20 years, legislatures have
watered
down the warranty of implied merchantability so that customers have fewer
protections.

One other point... What do service techs currently make? Given the high
cost
of service, you'd think they were paid $25 to $30 an hour. Are they? (I
can
hear the loud guffaws.)

When a friend of mine here in the UK recently had some major problems with
his car he put it into a main dealer garage for repair, they contacted him
on his mobile to say that it was ready. even before he had arrived back
home.

When he got back to the garage they told him that they had replaced the
vehicle's main ECU, on receiving the bill he almost passed out, as it was
for a staggering £899.00!

I would be surprised if the ECU in a modern vehicle has a great deal more
functions to calculate and control than the microprocessor in a half decent
VCR.. so how can that kind of price be justified for the few minutes work of
replacing a plug in module, which I would hazard a guess any self respecting
Chinese electronics factory could turn out for less than £30.00 a time!

 

[Ken G.]

I am friends with a long time repair shop here and we chat alot .
Although Sharp is still a very good product their service and parts
methods pretty much stink he says .
Some parts they wont even provide .

I have seen him with several flat tv sets over time and have worked on
several myself . Some of those circuit boards costed some 5 to 7 hundred
dollars but by now those 3 year old boards should be around 300$ .
Do more research to try & track down which board it is or at least find
a service shop who woud at least try to find & service the bad board . I
myself have repaired a few flat tv boards . I own 3 sharp LCD sets and
have had no trouble
You could replace the board yourself if you are carefull with stuff .
Its just screws and wire plugs on the boards .

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

This is one of those cases where an extended warranty for $150 /yr
probably would have been a really good idea. I just purchased a 32"
HDTV LCD set for my bedroom and purchased an extended warranty for
$169.00 for 3 years. It is in home service that covers everything
including broken pixels. This company has the best warranty on broken
pixels that I have ever heard of.

Perhaps, but the other 95% of the time the investment in an EW would have
been a waste. $169 is not bad for three years, but $150 per year is a high.
EWs generally do not make sense overall are a losing gamble.

Leonard

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

Here in the UK I'm pretty certain that something costing that amount of
money which only lasted for three years could well attract the attention
of our trading standards people, the argument being for that amount of
money the expectation would be for it to have a lifespan of longer than
three years, irrespective of the manufacturer's guarantee.
Just a thought, but would it be worth investigating to see if anything in
the U.S. consumer protection legislation incorporated something similar?

Does that mean that there should be zero failures in x number of years?
Just because a set breaks in three years does not justify saying that there
should be government intervention. What if the failure rate for the product
in general is very low and this is just an example of a customer with bad
luck. Are you saying that we should legislate warranties? Certainly, if
the product does not have a reasonable life in most cases there may be some
remedy due. There is not tendency that I know of for Sharp sets to have
such issues. I think Sharp is a lousy company to deal with for service and
dropped them a couple of years ago, but they do not seem to have systematic
problems with their LCD sets at all.

Leonard

 

[Jamie]

I am friends with a long time repair shop here and we chat alot .
Although Sharp is still a very good product their service and parts
methods pretty much stink he says .
Some parts they wont even provide .

I have seen him with several flat tv sets over time and have worked on
several myself . Some of those circuit boards costed some 5 to 7 hundred
dollars but by now those 3 year old boards should be around 300$ .
Do more research to try & track down which board it is or at least find
a service shop who woud at least try to find & service the bad board . I
myself have repaired a few flat tv boards . I own 3 sharp LCD sets and
have had no trouble
You could replace the board yourself if you are carefull with stuff .
Its just screws and wire plugs on the boards .

what ever happen to repairing the boards them self's?
Has TV repair gone the way of car mechanic technicians?

I've never replaced a whole circuit board unless it was potted,
totally smoked up or just happen to have a used one from a junker
spare parts TV sitting in the back for speedy repairs..

I don't do TV repairs on a regular bases but I can say that
I would prefer to replace the component not the board as the first
choice..

 

[Ivan]

Does that mean that there should be zero failures in x number of years?
Just because a set breaks in three years does not justify saying that
there should be government intervention. What if the failure rate for the
product in general is very low and this is just an example of a customer
with bad luck. Are you saying that we should legislate warranties?
Certainly, if the product does not have a reasonable life in most cases
there may be some remedy due. There is not tendency that I know of for
Sharp sets to have such issues. I think Sharp is a lousy company to deal
with for service and dropped them a couple of years ago, but they do not
seem to have systematic problems with their LCD sets at all.

UK law requires that any goods sold must be 'fit for purpose', and I would
be surprised that anyone paying $3000 (UK equivalent £1500) for a
television, only to be advised by the manufacturer that it wasn't worth
repairing after three years use would be mightily pissed off, I know I would
be.. Is it perhaps because people in the U.S. are so well off that $3000
for three years viewing is deemed to be a perfectly acceptable fact of life?
now If it was a £60.00 supermarket telly then I agree, even a couple of
years could be considered to be quite reasonable.

 

[Jamie]

UK law requires that any goods sold must be 'fit for purpose', and I
would be surprised that anyone paying $3000 (UK equivalent £1500) for a
television, only to be advised by the manufacturer that it wasn't worth
repairing after three years use would be mightily pissed off, I know I
would be.. Is it perhaps because people in the U.S. are so well off
that $3000 for three years viewing is deemed to be a perfectly
acceptable fact of life? now If it was a £60.00 supermarket telly then I
agree, even a couple of years could be considered to be quite reasonable.

Sometimes we need an excuse to buy a newer model for the newer
technologies since they're obsolete as soon as you walk out the
door with your new purchase.

 

[[email protected]]

Here is a site about setting up and adjusting expensive tv sets so that
they use less energy and last longer.
www.coastcal.com/tech_talk.htm
cuhulin

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Sometimes we need an excuse to buy a newer model for the newer
technologies since they're obsolete as soon as you walk out the
door with your new purchase.

If you beleive that, you are very stupid. Why on earth would you pay
$3000 for something that is already obsolete?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[[email protected]]

what ever happen to repairing the boards them self's?
Has TV repair gone the way of car mechanic technicians?

I've never replaced a whole circuit board unless it was potted,
totally smoked up or just happen to have a used one from a junker
spare parts TV sitting in the back for speedy repairs..

I don't do TV repairs on a regular bases but I can say that
I would prefer to replace the component not the board as the first
choice..

Replacing a quad flat pack chip in the field is very difficult. A BGA
cannot be done in the field. This assumes you can figure out which
chip is misbehaving looking at high speed data busses. Field board
repair ended quite a while ago.

GG

 

[Jamie]

Replacing a quad flat pack chip in the field is very difficult. A BGA
cannot be done in the field. This assumes you can figure out which
chip is misbehaving looking at high speed data busses. Field board
repair ended quite a while ago.

GG

When you say field, I assume you're talking about onsight service
calls ? I'm talking about sitting at the bench.. And I do have a
variety of tools for removing dense packages.
It's seems that all we have these days are those that don't event
want to debug the issue with the board to determine if it is a
dense package component.. They just rip the board out anyways and place
the burden on the customer..
For a while I use to do some part time work for a shop near by after
hours. If you only could have seen how many items the regular techs use
to deem a board to be replaced that only needed minor care, it would
shock you.
Some units would sit there for a long time while they were waiting for
a complete board. At times, boards were not available and they would
just let it sit there for a couple or more weeks and then charge the
customer bench fee's and condemn the unit..

SO now days, it should be noted on the repair bill Labor for physically
removing and putting in new board or boards!./

Another shop (now closed), use to get whole chassis and replace them
with out even debugging anything past a line fuse and maybe a diode or
cap in the PS.
This kind of dried up and he got spoiled over that which then
took a big bite out of his business when he then figured out that he
had to get him self updated with current technology..
His solution was ., close shop and retire./

 

[James Sweet]

When I plug in the TV I get a solid red light followed by one blink,
then two quick blinks, then a steady series of blinks (all red).

I called Sharp and they directed me to a service center. I took the TV
in and was told something about the circuit boards that I didn't quite
understand. the service person didn't speak English very well so i
couldn't pinpoint with him the exact problem. But the gist of it was
that it wasn't worth it for him or me to fix it. The quote he gave me
was around $1000.

The TV is only three years old and I paid $3,000 for the thing, so I'm
trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with it and whether I can
get it fixed.

Any thoughts? Should I take it in to another service center for a
second opinion?...or does this problem sound like the unit is totaled?
for me, having to pay $1,000 means it is totaled.

any thoughts would be appreciated.

pete

It never hurts to get a second opinion. If they can't do a component level
repair though and have to replace a board then that price is not unusual.

So you can get an equal or better TV for less than $1000?

 

[James Sweet]

When you say field, I assume you're talking about onsight service
calls ? I'm talking about sitting at the bench.. And I do have a
variety of tools for removing dense packages.
It's seems that all we have these days are those that don't event
want to debug the issue with the board to determine if it is a
dense package component.. They just rip the board out anyways and place
the burden on the customer..
For a while I use to do some part time work for a shop near by after
hours. If you only could have seen how many items the regular techs use
to deem a board to be replaced that only needed minor care, it would shock
you.
Some units would sit there for a long time while they were waiting for
a complete board. At times, boards were not available and they would just
let it sit there for a couple or more weeks and then charge the
customer bench fee's and condemn the unit..

SO now days, it should be noted on the repair bill Labor for physically
removing and putting in new board or boards!./

Another shop (now closed), use to get whole chassis and replace them
with out even debugging anything past a line fuse and maybe a diode or cap
in the PS.
This kind of dried up and he got spoiled over that which then
took a big bite out of his business when he then figured out that he
had to get him self updated with current technology..
His solution was ., close shop and retire./

I've noticed this as well. The problem is that a shop can't pay enough to
anymore to keep a really good tech around. I do component level repairs on
everything, never even considered replacing a whole board, but I can make a
much better living in software so I keep the repair work a hobby. It's
amazing how much good easily repairable stuff people toss out, I had to stop
accepting things unless they're significantly better than something I
already have. I've never had to actually buy a TV, these days even big HD
sets are getting tossed.

 

[James Sweet]

I would be surprised if the ECU in a modern vehicle has a great deal more
functions to calculate and control than the microprocessor in a half
decent VCR.. so how can that kind of price be justified for the few
minutes work of replacing a plug in module, which I would hazard a guess
any self respecting Chinese electronics factory could turn out for less
than £30.00 a time!

Having built and tuned a DIY ECU last summer, I can say there's far more
that goes into it than the hardware design and manufacturing. The hard part
is getting the fuel and ignition maps tuned across the temperature, RPM, and
load range, achieving an acceptable balance between fuel economy, clean
emissions, and drivability, dealing with various climate conditions, fuel
grades, and compensating for wear and tear on mechanical parts. Now I do
agree that ECUs tend to be rather overpriced, but in effect, you're paying
for the software development which can be monumental to get to the point
where the car just works under any imaginable conditions..