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IS Heat Sink Required?

N

Nick

Hi,

What is the minimum current for a regulator from there onwards a heat
sink should be used?
I am using a 1Ampere LM7815 regulator with 45mAmps current consumption.

Thanks and Regards.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Nick
What is the minimum current for a regulator from there onwards a heat
sink should be used?

** The power or heat dissipation has to be estimated.
I am using a 1Ampere LM7815 regulator with 45mAmps current consumption.


** Just multiply the current by the voltage ACROSS the LM7815.

ie Current x ( Input volts - 15 )

If the answer is less than 0.6 watts - you can forget the heatsink.

Otherwise use the " calibrated finger test ".

If YOU go "ouch !! " then it needs one.




.......... Phil
 
P

Pooh Bear

Nick said:
Hi,

What is the minimum current for a regulator from there onwards a heat
sink should be used?

It depends on the dissipation, ambient temperature, airflow ( e.g forced -
using a fan - or not ) and package style.
I am using a 1Ampere LM7815 regulator with 45mAmps current consumption.

More info needed. For starters it isn't the *current* but the *power*
dissipated in the above example that matters. Is it TO-92 ( 7815L ) or
TO-220 ( standard 7815 ) ? What's the input voltage ? Etc.........

Graham
 
N

Nick

Hi,

The input voltage is 21 VDC, the package of regulator is TO-220.

Thanks and regards..
 
N

Nick

Hi,

As for the Formula ie Current x ( Input volts - 15 ) = 0.045 x
21 = 0.945 Watts < (6 Watts).
I think i can avoid the heat sink.

thanks Guys..
 
W

Walter Harley

Nick said:
Hi,

What is the minimum current for a regulator from there onwards a heat
sink should be used?
I am using a 1Ampere LM7815 regulator with 45mAmps current consumption.

Graham gave you the specific answer, but in the hope that you might want to
understand the principle involved:

The regulator dissipates power P = (voltage drop) * (current). The voltage
drop is the input voltage minus the output voltage, which is 21V - 15V in
your case. So it dissipates 6V * 45mA = 270mW.

That power is dissipated through the "thermal resistance" of the regulator
case. If you look at the datasheet, there is a rating for theta-ja, the
thermal resistance from junction to air (that's without any additional heat
sink).

Thermals can be modeled just like electric circuits: thermal resistance is
like resistance, power is like current, and temperature drop is like voltage
drop. So using Ohm's Law (V = I * R), and substituting in the the thermal
equivalents (T = P * theta), you can calculate the amount of temperature
drop between the regulator chip and the air, for a given power.

Looking on the National Semiconductor datasheet for an LM7815T, I see
theta-ja for the TO220 case is typically 50 C/W (that's degrees Celsius per
watt). So, we can calculate T = P * theta = 270mW * 50 C/W = 13.5C. In
other words, the chip will be running at 13.5 degrees above ambient, or
about 40C. I also see that the max operating temp is 150C, so you are quite
safe.

....Or, you could just look at the graphs in the datasheet, where it shows a
chart of how much power the chip can safely dissipate, with various kinds of
heat sinks and at various ambient temps.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Nick"
As for the Formula ie Current x ( Input volts - 15 ) = 0.045 x
21 = 0.945 Watts < (6 Watts).


** Your math is crap.

You failed the subtract the 15 !!!

PLUS the safe figure I gave was 0.6 watts !!!


I think i can avoid the heat sink.


** Do you cross busy streets with your eyes shut ?



........... Phil
 
A

Anthony Fremont

Phil Allison said:
"Nick"



** Your math is crap.

Something like your advice?
You failed the subtract the 15 !!!

PLUS the safe figure I gave was 0.6 watts !!!

How did you arrive at that? Most TO-220 cases can safely dissipate 2W
(without a sink) in normal ambient conditions since most of them have a
50-60C/W Tja.
** Do you cross busy streets with your eyes shut ?

Here's to hoping that you do.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Anthony Fremont" = One Pig Ignorant Asshole
"Phil Allison"

Something like your advice?



** My advice is for you to go **** yourself - Anthony.

Now that is damn good advice.



How did you arrive at that?


** Lots of experience.

Something congenital fuckwit like you does not have.


Most TO-220 cases can safely dissipate 2W
(without a sink) in normal ambient conditions since most of them have a
50-60C/W Tja.


** Absolute brainless bullshit !!

Max junction temp for the LM78series is 125C, above which thermal shutdown
occurs.

The local ambient may well be up to 65C when the device is mounted inside
some piece of gear.

That makes the max allowable dissipation no more than 1 watt.

Even 1 watt would result in the case temp being circa 120C - far too
bloody hot for any nearby electro or other semi.

The figure of 0.6 watts dissipation is reasonably safe in most apps.


Here's to hoping that you do.


** What sort of pathological pleasure you get form being THE most
obnoxious prick you can is mystery to me.

Lets just hope a painful, fatal disease gets you real soon.

I'll be looking forward to it.




.......... Phil
 
F

Frank Bemelman

Phil Allison said:
"Anthony Fremont" = One Pig Ignorant Asshole

** Absolute brainless bullshit !!

Hey, he didn't say for how long ;)
Max junction temp for the LM78series is 125C, above which thermal shutdown
occurs.

The local ambient may well be up to 65C when the device is mounted inside
some piece of gear.

That makes the max allowable dissipation no more than 1 watt.

Even 1 watt would result in the case temp being circa 120C - far too
bloody hot for any nearby electro or other semi.

The figure of 0.6 watts dissipation is reasonably safe in most apps.

Even 0.6 watts makes it feel pretty hot, for a calibrated finger test.
When I can touch it for more than 5 seconds, I assume it's okay. I'd
think that 2 watt you have instant blisters.

Then there's a diffence if you mount it vertical or flat. When mounted
flat on a PCB you have in fact a heatsink (copper plane), although you
won't find it on the bill of material.
 
A

Anthony Fremont

Phil Allison said:
"Anthony Fremont" = One Pig Ignorant Asshole



** My advice is for you to go **** yourself - Anthony.

Now that is damn good advice.






** Lots of experience.

Something congenital fuckwit like you does not have.





** Absolute brainless bullshit !!

Max junction temp for the LM78series is 125C, above which thermal shutdown
occurs.

National says 150C and nobody (that I can find) says at what temperature
shutdown occurs.
The local ambient may well be up to 65C when the device is mounted inside
some piece of gear.

I sure didn't see anything like that being mentioned before now.
That makes the max allowable dissipation no more than 1 watt.

Well duh, after you start putting arbitrary constraints on things. I
believe that most consider ambient to be 25C.
Even 1 watt would result in the case temp being circa 120C - far too
bloody hot for any nearby electro or other semi.

Again, who said anything about these kinds of limitations?
The figure of 0.6 watts dissipation is reasonably safe in most apps.

So, in the end, you just "conjure up" an arbitrary number after all?
** What sort of pathological pleasure you get form being THE most
obnoxious prick you can is mystery to me.

It's all just for you phil. ;-) BTW, I like it when you get so excited
that you misspell. Speaking of being the most obnoxious prick possible,
pot...kettle...black and all that.
Lets just hope a painful, fatal disease gets you real soon.

I'll be looking forward to it.

LMAO
 
P

Phil Allison

"Frank Bemelman"
Even 0.6 watts makes it feel pretty hot, for a calibrated finger test.
When I can touch it for more than 5 seconds, I assume it's okay. I'd
think that 2 watt you have instant blisters.


** The "advanced finger test" ( AFT) involves a preliminary, judicious
lick of the test finger - followed by a " fast acoustic analysis " (
FAA ) of any resulting sizzle and possible immediate cessation of test.





......... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Anthony Fremont" = Congenital, Pig Ignorant Scum
-------------------------------------------------------------

shutdown occurs.


National says 150C and nobody (that I can find) says at what temperature
shutdown occurs.


** The max Tj spec is *125 C* in the National data book - FUCKHEAD
!!

Your LACK of any experience with the part is BLINDINGLY obvious.



inside some piece of gear.

I sure didn't see anything like that being mentioned before now.


** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

FUCKWIT.


Well duh, after you start putting arbitrary constraints on things.


** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

FUCKWIT.


I believe that most consider ambient to be 25C.


** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

FUCKWIT.


Again, who said anything about these kinds of limitations?



** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

FUCKHEAD !!!!


So, in the end, you just "conjure up" an arbitrary number after all?


** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

YOU SMUG POSTURING PIG.



It's all just for you phil. ;-)



** Anthony Fremont is no more than a useless, publicly masturbating,
autistic pile of shit.

Lets just hope a very painful, fatal disease gets him soon.

I'll be looking forward to it immensely.






............ Phil
 
A

Anthony Fremont

Phil Allison said:
"Anthony Fremont" = Congenital, Pig Ignorant Scum
-------------------------------------------------------------

Please don't top post.
** The max Tj spec is *125 C* in the National data book - FUCKHEAD
!!

Your LACK of any experience with the part is BLINDINGLY obvious.

http://hct.ece.ubc.ca/research/sidgroove/datasheets/7805.pdf is the
first match in Google. It clearly demonstrates your inability to read
and comprehend information. To reiterate, the max Tj is 150C.

** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

FUCKWIT.

Yes, resort to name calling when you can't make any other kind of
argument. For all we know, the part may have a fan blowing on it. We
do know that the regulator will only be supplying 45mA. It's probably
safe to assume that no parts are emitting that kind of heat in the
circuit.
** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.


** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

FUCKWIT.

You're repeating yourself phil. Perhaps a witty invocation of Godwin's
Law would allow you a graceful exit from your repetitive fit.
** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

FUCKHEAD !!!!





** Your LACK of any experience with electronics is BLINDINGLY obvious.

YOU SMUG POSTURING PIG.

Did I touch a nerve?
** Anthony Fremont is no more than a useless, publicly masturbating,
autistic pile of shit.

Lets just hope a very painful, fatal disease gets him soon.

I'll be looking forward to it immensely.

Why do you continually call me autistic? I have no trouble
communicating. Perhaps it's just your interpretation of how the world
tunes you out.
 
P

Phil Allison

"Anthony Fremont" = Congenital, Pig Ignorant Scum
-------------------------------------------------------------



** My National Linear Data data book CLEARLY says 125 C for the T package.

Plus ALL the electrical specs are given with Tj in the range from 0 to 125C
..


It clearly demonstrates your inability to read
and comprehend information.


** Go **** yourself - you sickening, autistic PUKE.


Why do you continually call me autistic?


** Because that is exactly what you are - PUKE.




........ Phil
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Pooh said:
Nick wrote:




Dissipation is therefore 6V x 45mA which is 270 mW.

Ehhh- forgetting about the bias currents, say 4mA so that additional
4x21V=80mW for a total of 350mW typical.
 
P

Pooh Bear

Fred said:
Ehhh- forgetting about the bias currents, say 4mA so that additional
4x21V=80mW for a total of 350mW typical.

Actually I hadn't but I don't like to bring in the subtler stuff for
beginners straight off.

Graham
 
A

Anthony Fremont

Phil Allison said:
"Anthony Fremont" = Congenital, Pig Ignorant Scum
-------------------------------------------------------------




** My National Linear Data data book CLEARLY says 125 C for the T
package.

Good for you phil, the datasheet I provided CLEARLY says 150C for the T
and K packages. As if any of this matters anyhow. All I ever wanted to
know is how you "calculated" .6W. We now know that you WAG'd it, so
that answers that.
Plus ALL the electrical specs are given with Tj in the range from 0 to
125C

So what, many times the individual specs are quoted over a narrow range,
it's nothing new in datasheet land.
** Go **** yourself - you sickening, autistic PUKE.





** Because that is exactly what you are - PUKE.

I'm sure you have everyone convinced.
 
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