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IEEE 'golden ears'

J

Joerg

Hello Thomas,
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/wonews/jun05/0605ngeek.html

about improving audio from a DVD player. First step: swap out bridge
rectifier diodes and buffer cap on the line side. Second step: exchange
the X-rated caps across the line voltage for non-certified audiophile
caps costing $13 each!

What oh what has become of the IEEE?

That is indeed weird. I would never advise anyone to compromise safety
or violate UL regulations.

Often the best approach in audio gear is to get rid of switchers
altogether and replace them with properly designed low noise linear
power supplies. Your electricity bill might go up a few cents per month ;-)

Regards, Joerg
 
M

martin griffith

I found a link to an article:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/wonews/jun05/0605ngeek.html

about improving audio from a DVD player. First step: swap out bridge
rectifier diodes and buffer cap on the line side. Second step: exchange
the X-rated caps across the line voltage for non-certified audiophile
caps costing $13 each!

What oh what has become of the IEEE?


Thomas

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Robert McNeice is a business and information-technology consultant for
the financial services industry. He is an audiophile and occasional
tweaker.

wonder if he is an ieee member?



martin
 
A

artie

Zak said:
I found a link to an article:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/wonews/jun05/0605ngeek.html

about improving audio from a DVD player. First step: swap out bridge
rectifier diodes and buffer cap on the line side. Second step: exchange
the X-rated caps across the line voltage for non-certified audiophile
caps costing $13 each!

What oh what has become of the IEEE?


Thomas

This article was featured on Slashdot -- http://slashdot.org/

The comments on it are pretty good:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/02/154243&tid=222&tid=
137
 
J

John Larkin

I found a link to an article:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/wonews/jun05/0605ngeek.html

about improving audio from a DVD player. First step: swap out bridge
rectifier diodes and buffer cap on the line side. Second step: exchange
the X-rated caps across the line voltage for non-certified audiophile
caps costing $13 each!

What oh what has become of the IEEE?


Thomas

There, I knew it was a good idea to drop out of the IEEE about 30
years ago.

John
 
J

Jim Thompson

There, I knew it was a good idea to drop out of the IEEE about 30
years ago.

John

I dropped out 40+ years ago when they started charging an outrageous
price for the Proceedings.

Re-joined about 5 years ago so I could get member prices for copies of
papers.

...Jim Thompson
 
F

Frithiof Andreas Jensen

What oh what has become of the IEEE?

To access that information, you MUST first:

1) Have a current membership of the IEEE,
2) Have a Credit Card
3) Part with USD 25,-- to to download a paper, that either MIGHT have the
answer your question (but, equally likely, instead might be an answer to the
researchers problem: "How do I get Job to pay for my trip to
<nice-conference-location>" ....

I am getting sooo cynical over all those "URGENT - ABSOLUTELY THE VERY LAST
CHANGE" BUMF envelopes.
 
P

Pooh Bear

Zak said:
I found a link to an article:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/wonews/jun05/0605ngeek.html

about improving audio from a DVD player. First step: swap out bridge
rectifier diodes and buffer cap on the line side. Second step: exchange
the X-rated caps across the line voltage for non-certified audiophile
caps costing $13 each!

Which is entirely *ILLEGAL* to do !

What oh what has become of the IEEE?

Apparently turned into a talking shop for buffoons.

The idead of improving a producvt with 'boutique' parts is plain assinine.
Manufacturers already use the best part for the job at the relelevant price
point.

Rather than buy a $150 CD player and 'upgrade it' with $150 of 'boutique
parts - just go and buy a $300 player. The manufacturers can buy parts far,
far cheaper than the individual can and aren't to dumb as to do some of
idiotic things suggested in the article.

What bothers me almost more than anything is that author apparently thinks
that 'boutique' caps for EMI suppresion on the ac line side will have the
remotest influence an audio quality.

Also the concept of 'better bass' by tweaking the PSU is idiotic when
applied to a CD player. The load on the PSU is essentially constant. It's
not like a power amplifier at all. Essentially the author apparently knows
nothing about good practice for audio power supply decoupling too.

Graham
 
J

Jim Thompson

Which is entirely *ILLEGAL* to do !



Apparently turned into a talking shop for buffoons.

The idead of improving a producvt with 'boutique' parts is plain assinine.
Manufacturers already use the best part for the job at the relelevant price
point.

Rather than buy a $150 CD player and 'upgrade it' with $150 of 'boutique
parts - just go and buy a $300 player. The manufacturers can buy parts far,
far cheaper than the individual can and aren't to dumb as to do some of
idiotic things suggested in the article.

What bothers me almost more than anything is that author apparently thinks
that 'boutique' caps for EMI suppresion on the ac line side will have the
remotest influence an audio quality.

Also the concept of 'better bass' by tweaking the PSU is idiotic when
applied to a CD player. The load on the PSU is essentially constant. It's
not like a power amplifier at all. Essentially the author apparently knows
nothing about good practice for audio power supply decoupling too.

Graham

The author probably thinks DVD players have tooobz in them ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
F

Fred Bartoli

Jim Thompson said:
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:16:15 +0100, Pooh Bear


The author probably thinks DVD players have tooobz in them ;-)

Digital Vacuum Device?
 
B

Ben Bradley

To access that information, you MUST first:

By the .de in your headers, I presume you're outside the USA and
the IEEE site discriminated against your IP address. I'm in the USA,
I'm not an IEEE member, and it shows me that page. Perhaps you can
read it through a proxy site in the USA, such as anonymizer.com or
even babelfish.
 
F

Frithiof Andreas Jensen

By the .de in your headers, I presume you're outside the USA and
the IEEE site discriminated against your IP address. I'm in the USA,
I'm not an IEEE member, and it shows me that page. Perhaps you can
read it through a proxy site in the USA, such as anonymizer.com or
even babelfish.

The .de is merely where it is p.t. cheapest to $corp to unload the data.

I can read the IEEE spectrum just fine - I was mocking the IEEE for always
going for your wallet, the way they charge for access to the most trivial
information - in this case the IEEE Transactions Database, where one quite
often will end up shelling money for papers with fine abstracts and crap
content (if it was not for Google, that is - many charged-for papers are on
the open internet as well).
 
Z

Zak

Pooh said:
The idead of improving a producvt with 'boutique' parts is plain assinine.
Manufacturers already use the best part for the job at the relelevant price
point.

Rather than buy a $150 CD player and 'upgrade it' with $150 of 'boutique
parts - just go and buy a $300 player. The manufacturers can buy parts far,
far cheaper than the individual can and aren't to dumb as to do some of
idiotic things suggested in the article.

Well, if the digital parts are okay, the analog side of a very cheap DVD
player may not be that hard to improve.

And the price points above 'minimum' are probably filled with features,
not with quality. OTOH providing decent audio is so inexpensive one
wonders why some devices do not output any bass at all...


Thomas
 
P

Pooh Bear

Zak said:
Well, if the digital parts are okay, the analog side of a very cheap DVD
player may not be that hard to improve.

You assume it needs improving ? A $2 DAC today for example is a very competent
performer. Decent op-amps are 'two a penny'. Where is the realistic improvement
to be made ? You can put in 'high-end' op-amps for sure but I challenge anyone to
measure any difference compared to relatively run-of-the-mill devices.

However many low end players have DACs integrated into the chipset and I wouldn't
expect the best of these. You'll get a separate DAC by buying the more expensive
model as well as the 'features' that actually cost next to nil to implement.
And the price points above 'minimum' are probably filled with features,
not with quality. OTOH providing decent audio is so inexpensive one
wonders why some devices do not output any bass at all...

I would also wonder that.

I know for sure that replacing the X caps isn't going to help it one tiny bit,
nor will exotic PSU reservoir caps.

If you were to present me with a CD player with 'poor bass' and a schematic. I
doubt that it would take more than a couple of hours to find a scientific
explanation for it.

Incidentally, good pcb layout is a factor in getting good sound and boutique
parts will not help that one jot.

Graham
 
Z

Zak

Pooh said:
You assume it needs improving ? A $2 DAC today for example is a very competent
performer. Decent op-amps are 'two a penny'. Where is the realistic improvement
to be made ? You can put in 'high-end' op-amps for sure but I challenge anyone to
measure any difference compared to relatively run-of-the-mill devices.

Well, too small SMD output capacitors are one, muting switches might be
another (though I doubt the latter - are they even still in use?)
However many low end players have DACs integrated into the chipset and I wouldn't
expect the best of these. You'll get a separate DAC by buying the more expensive
model as well as the 'features' that actually cost next to nil to implement.

Well, the price is set by marketing, not by manufacturing cost. I bought
a very decent satellite receiver package (DVB tuner, LNB, dish, 25
meters of coax, two scart cables, plugs, huge colorful retail box) for
69 euro. In Iraq, something similar is sold at less than 50. The usual
price here is more like 110 euro, even if one shops around. Similarly
price in the US seems to be from around 120 us$. Quite some differences
for what is quite the same down to the CPU/SOC used.
I know for sure that replacing the X caps isn't going to help it one tiny bit,
nor will exotic PSU reservoir caps.

I definitely agree on that.
If you were to present me with a CD player with 'poor bass' and a schematic. I
doubt that it would take more than a couple of hours to find a scientific
explanation for it.

Like my keychain MP3 player. Works fine connected to speakers, but
connected to headphones bass is lacking.
Incidentally, good pcb layout is a factor in getting good sound and boutique
parts will not help that one jot.

Indeed the keychain player is also hissing... which could be impossible
to solve.

I guess it depends on the value of your time, and whether one enjoys
doing this.


Thomas
 
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