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HPM weapons

R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

I have no idea as to the attenuation of say 2Ghz trying to get through
some thin ferrous (of better) shielding.
Also, isn't a good portion of microwave radiation reflected off metal
shielding?
Click to expand...
Those scientists are kids who were weaned on "Star Wars". I can see the
starry look in their eyes as they envision The Blaster. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

John said:
A recent issue of Aviation Week had some articles on
high-power-microwave weapons. There's a blurred photo of a
BAE-developed switching gadget that looks like a coffee-stirrer-sized
slab of white ceramic with some dark strips deposited on top. The
strips may be something like GaAs or possibly amorphous diamond. It's
the heart of a 4x4 inch "tile" emitter.
Click to expand...
[snip]

John,
a good first of Aprils. There are persistent plans
of whatever forces to apply microwave and laser
weapons to no avail yet. Never mind if they do not
work, at least they are good to get some government
money.
Click to expand...

Dang! You beat me to it! I was about 1/3 of the way down the thread
before it hit me - at least I'm glad I'm not the only one who bit! ;-D

Cheers!
Rich
 
M

Mike Monett

John Larkin said:
The F-22 is already flying with some of this technology.

google it, today or tomorrow.

John
Click to expand...

The best the F-22 can do so far is shown here:

"It also has a radar that could be used to concentrate its transmission
power strongly enough to jam air defense radars and communications links.
With the addition of other equipment in 2010, it should be possible to
focus enough energy into a beam strong enough to damage the electronics of
enemy sensors."

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004610.asp

Damaging the sensors is one thing. Focusing the radar beam enough to fry
the electronics of a enemy fighter or missile 100km away is not possible.

However, claims it can do so are spread around the web hopefully to reduce
the chance the program will be terminated at a low number of planes.

Regards,

Mike Monett
 
J

John Larkin

It just hit me - the amount of power this thing would need would be
astronomical - you might as well use a little nuke, not that there's
anything right with that. =:-O

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...

Power, not energy. The pulses last nanoseconds, extracted from modest
sized capacitors.

John
 
J

John Larkin

John said:
A recent issue of Aviation Week had some articles on
high-power-microwave weapons. There's a blurred photo of a
BAE-developed switching gadget that looks like a coffee-stirrer-sized
slab of white ceramic with some dark strips deposited on top. The
strips may be something like GaAs or possibly amorphous diamond. It's
the heart of a 4x4 inch "tile" emitter.
Click to expand...
[snip]

John,
a good first of Aprils. There are persistent plans
of whatever forces to apply microwave and laser
weapons to no avail yet. Never mind if they do not
work, at least they are good to get some government
money.
Click to expand...

Dang! You beat me to it! I was about 1/3 of the way down the thread
before it hit me - at least I'm glad I'm not the only one who bit! ;-D

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...

Aviation Week and Space Technology, Jan 22 issue, starting on page 42.
The pic of the BAE switch is on page 44.

John
 
L

LVMarc

John said:
John Larkin wrote:


A recent issue of Aviation Week had some articles on
high-power-microwave weapons. There's a blurred photo of a
BAE-developed switching gadget that looks like a coffee-stirrer-sized
slab of white ceramic with some dark strips deposited on top. The
strips may be something like GaAs or possibly amorphous diamond. It's
the heart of a 4x4 inch "tile" emitter.


[snip]

John,
a good first of Aprils. There are persistent plans
of whatever forces to apply microwave and laser
weapons to no avail yet. Never mind if they do not
work, at least they are good to get some government
money.
Click to expand...

Dang! You beat me to it! I was about 1/3 of the way down the thread
before it hit me - at least I'm glad I'm not the only one who bit! ;-D

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...


Aviation Week and Space Technology, Jan 22 issue, starting on page 42.
The pic of the BAE switch is on page 44.

John
Click to expand...
HPM sources have been in development for decades. HPM hardening, also
called NEMP hardeneing has also gone on for decades. HPM has been
evaluted for mine clearing as well as frying front end communcations
systems. The pulsed power supply is the core of either the rf HPM or
laser "HPM" as you trickle charge a "marx BanK", then you breakdown the
"switch" and you get a surge of prime power.

Very interesting physics and control electronics in these beasts.

Marc
 
J

Jim Yanik

yeah, I didn't specify RF or Light did I ?
So how do you arrive at light since we are
talking RF ?
Last time I knew, RF can be reflected .
Click to expand...

an RF "beam" is not going to be a tight spot like a laser beam.any
reflector that can reflect the RF "beam" is going to be so big that it
would not fit on an aircraft,and would be similarly inappropriate for other
vehicles.Also,unlike light,RF energy will have "edge" effects,and thus leak
around your reflector.RF cannot be treated exactly like light.
 
J

Jim Yanik

[snip]
What..shielded electronics don't work???
If that screen on my microwave oven door doesn't cook me at 1kW...,
I'm wondering how a microwave burst (from a distant) is going to fry
shielded electronics..
D from BC
Click to expand...

"shielding" is measured in DB of attenuation,it's not a total block of
the pulse.If the pulse is powerful enough,it will generate levels of
energy high enough to harm the "shielded" electronics.
Click to expand...

I have no idea as to the attenuation of say 2Ghz trying to get through
some thin ferrous (of better) shielding.
Also, isn't a good portion of microwave radiation reflected off metal
shielding?

D from BC
Click to expand...

the metal shielding is also going to act like an antenna,absorbing some
energy,conducting MW energy to any crack or opening.
There always has to be some openings and ports.
 
J

Jim Yanik

Well, yeah, I guess zap guns (or whatever you want to call them -
Blasters? ;-) ) have been pretty much inevitable since they discovered
radio. :)

And I'm kinda disappointed - when you started with "...looks like a
coffee-stirrer-sized slab of white ceramic with some dark strips
deposited on top. The strips may be something like GaAs or possibly
amorphous diamond. ..." I was thinking "hand-phaser sized!", but it
turns out it has to be bigger than a Howitzer. Sigh. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...

well,there ARE those pesky laws of physics.
 
T

Tim Williams

Jim Yanik said:
an RF "beam" is not going to be a tight spot like a laser beam.
Click to expand...

Tight is a relative term. The 1mm circle from your red laser pointer is a
good 1500 wavelengths across. It can get much tighter. (Even sloppy CO2
cutting lasers, at 10um wavelength, get a kerf of 0.004" (100um), or 10
wavelengths. Admittedly, not necessarily at a few hundred meters distance
from the nearest optics.)

There's no reason, then, that microwaves at perhaps 10GHz can't be focused
into a beam (or at least a spot) of perhaps 300mm, which easily covers the
surface of any general aviation or fighter or bomber aircraft several times.
RF cannot be treated exactly like light.
Click to expand...

Sure it can. Light is just RF that thinks it's really fast (high
frequency). The only difference is what model (particle/optical or wave)
you use to illustrate it on any arbitrary scale.

Tim
 
M

Mike Monett

Tim Williams said:
There's no reason, then, that microwaves at perhaps 10GHz can't be
focused into a beam (or at least a spot) of perhaps 300mm, which
easily covers the surface of any general aviation or fighter or bomber
aircraft several times.
Click to expand...

Antennas are reciprocal. So why don't we have radio astronomy antennas that
can give as good resolution as the Hubble telescope?

Regards,

Mike Monett
 
J

John Larkin

Nows we are getting somewhere. Beamwidth is inversely proportional to
antenna size.

How do you fit that on the nose of a F-22?

Regards,

Mike Monett
Click to expand...

It doesn't take .05 arcseconds to disable an incoming missile,
especially when you have 10's of gigawatts to invest.

John
 
R

Rich Grise

Antennas are reciprocal. So why don't we have radio astronomy antennas that
can give as good resolution as the Hubble telescope?
Click to expand...

They do, and maybe even better, given the wavelength of the incident
radiation. :)

BTW, this is another reason to put bases on the moon and stations at
LL4 and/or LL5 - Very Long-Base Interferometry. :)

And imagine the accuracy we could get with a Mars parsec! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
J

John Larkin

They do, and maybe even better, given the wavelength of the incident
radiation. :)

BTW, this is another reason to put bases on the moon and stations at
LL4 and/or LL5 - Very Long-Base Interferometry. :)

And imagine the accuracy we could get with a Mars parsec! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...

If we got rid of the idiotic space station, and dumped the Shuttle
program and its replacement, we could afford to do a lot of serious
science.

John
 
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