hp - Agilent: "help us share your old manuals"

[Winfield Hill]

Remember the recent flap over Agilent's lawyer shutting down
'bama manuals (Boat Anchor Manual Archive)? Now they say,
"help us share old manuals," and they're posting links to
folks who share Acrobat scan files or sell CDs.

http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/library/cp_LibraryFAQDetail.jsp?
NAV_ID=-536895978.0.00&LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&ID=1000002849%3Aepsg%3Afaq&OID=536895149

Sheesh, what horrible URLs they use!

 

[Joerg]

Hello Win,

Remember the recent flap over Agilent's lawyer shutting down
'bama manuals (Boat Anchor Manual Archive)? Now they say,
"help us share old manuals," and they're posting links to
folks who share Acrobat scan files or sell CDs.

http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/library/cp_LibraryFAQDetail.jsp?
NAV_ID=-536895978.0.00&LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&ID=1000002849%3Aepsg%3Afaq&OID=536895149

Sheesh, what horrible URLs they use!

What I find strange is the trend these days to dump older documents.
National does it, TI does it, and Agilent offers manuals online but much
of the HP stuff just ain't there.

Talking about boat anchors, my HP4191 just told me that its cal battery
has croaked. Time to swallow a Motrin and a Flexoril, else I'll wake up
with back pain again.

Regards, Joerg

 

[John Devereux]

Remember the recent flap over Agilent's lawyer shutting down
'bama manuals (Boat Anchor Manual Archive)? Now they say,
"help us share old manuals," and they're posting links to
folks who share Acrobat scan files or sell CDs.

http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/library/cp_LibraryFAQDetail.jsp?
NAV_ID=-536895978.0.00&LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&ID=1000002849%3Aepsg%3Afaq&OID=536895149

Sheesh, what horrible URLs they use!

Yes, so long that it wrapped around and got corrupted for me!

I believe that this can be prevented if you enclose the URL in angle
brackets:

<http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin...CODE=eng&ID=1000002849:epsg:faq&OID=536895149>

Nice to see big companies get a clue, for once.

 

[John Larkin]

Remember the recent flap over Agilent's lawyer shutting down
'bama manuals (Boat Anchor Manual Archive)? Now they say,
"help us share old manuals," and they're posting links to
folks who share Acrobat scan files or sell CDs.

http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/library/cp_LibraryFAQDetail.jsp?
NAV_ID=-536895978.0.00&LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&ID=1000002849%3Aepsg%3Afaq&OID=536895149

Sheesh, what horrible URLs they use!

http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp9100.htm

I have two classic HP9100 desktop calculators, truly astounding
technology for their time... CRT display, all transistor logic, core
memory, three different rom technologies, including multilayer
inductive-coupled pcb. Both are dead, and HP never released the
schematics, so I can't fix them. I've pestered several successive HP
archivists, who say

Yes, we have the schematics

No, you can't see them.


I did my first control system simulations, for the 32,000 horsepower
LASH ship propulsion systems, on a 9100, later on a PDP-8 running
FOCAL.

http://www.njscuba.net/artifacts/ship_freighter.html

http://www.harveystudio.com/lash.html


John

 

[Winfield Hill]

John Larkin wrote...

http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp9100.htm

I have two classic HP9100 desktop calculators, truly astounding
technology for their time... CRT display, all transistor logic,
core memory, three different rom technologies, including multilayer
inductive-coupled pcb. Both are dead, and HP never released the
schematics, so I can't fix them. I've pestered several successive
HP archivists, who say

Yes, we have the schematics
No, you can't see them.

Maybe, when informed of the new Agilent policy, and rational,
they'll let you come in and scan their manuals?!?

I did my first control system simulations, for the 32,000 horsepower
LASH ship propulsion systems, on a 9100, later on a PDP-8 running
FOCAL.

http://www.njscuba.net/artifacts/ship_freighter.html
http://www.harveystudio.com/lash.html

Impressive stuff!

Hey, then you should know of my buddy, Jim Van Zee, developer
of the advanced DEC machine FOCAL interpreters in the 70's.

 

[John Larkin]

John Larkin wrote...

Maybe, when informed of the new Agilent policy, and rational,
they'll let you come in and scan their manuals?!?


Impressive stuff!

Hey, then you should know of my buddy, Jim Van Zee, developer
of the advanced DEC machine FOCAL interpreters in the 70's.

Rick Merrill wrote the original PDP-8 and later PDP-11 Focal
interpreters, based on the Jovial language or something. Rick, and the
structure of Focal-8, influenced the PDP-11 architecture and that had
a huge influence, like on the 68K for example. I wrote the random
number generator for Focal-11, all 20 bytes or so of it, using a
pseudorandom shift register, which replaced the classic, terrible
modulo thing that was there before.

I learned to program by reading the Focal-11 listing. It was amazing
code. It was a nice language, at least as handy as C, and you could
enter, edit, and run useful applications in 4K words of core on a
PDP-8 (12 bit word!) or an 11 (16 bits, beautiful machine.)

I don't know Jim; what did he do?

FOCAL is related to MUMPS somehow.

John

 

[Tony Williams]

http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp9100.htm

The description of mathematical operations in that URL,
(X, Y, Z, T, registers, and the RPN ops that could be
performed on them), is uncannily similar to the (later)
Nat Semi MM57109 "number crunching" uP.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Joerg wrote...

Talking about boat anchors, my HP4191 just told me that its cal battery
has croaked. Time to swallow a Motrin and a Flexoril, else I'll wake up
with back pain again.

Acckk, I'll bet my 4191A is close to trouble. These are all
old instruments.

 

[Winfield Hill]

John Larkin wrote...

I don't know Jim; what did he do?

Poking around on Google... Jim van Zee wrote the University of
Washington FOCAL, or UW FOCAL, which runs on PDP-8 under OS/8.

I wasn't able to find much. I know he distributed copies for
years in the 70s and 80s - that's before web pages came along.
He did this while he was supposed to be finishing his PhD in
Chemical Physics (the same program I dropped out), so he
eventually took 14 years to finish, a Harvard record, IIRC.
He was at the UW Chemistry dept for several decades or more.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Win,

Acckk, I'll bet my 4191A is close to trouble. These are all
old instruments.

They are old but trusty. If something dies it's usually fixable and they
put some very nice diagnostic feature into them. It'll display a code
and you look it up in the manual. Takes all the fun out of the
diagnosis. Of course then you have to do some heavy lifting and screw
driver wielding. When it runs again I tend to get the sniffles from the
fan that seems to want to rival a jet engine.

I have used 'modern' impedance analyzers at clients. They were all more
fancy but somehow it felt like moving to an automatic transmission
(which I won't...). When my 4191 shows me a numeric result I know I can
count on that.

If you or someone else has the time check the RAM battery. I was
surprised how long mine lasted but there just comes a time and you don't
want it to leak. If the display begins to show ghibberish look at the
power supply. Had that once on mine (an electrolytic shorted) and once
at a client (cap dried out).

Regards, Joerg

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Hello Win,

They are old but trusty. If something dies it's usually fixable and they
put some very nice diagnostic feature into them. It'll display a code
and you look it up in the manual. Takes all the fun out of the
diagnosis. Of course then you have to do some heavy lifting and screw
driver wielding. When it runs again I tend to get the sniffles from the
fan that seems to want to rival a jet engine.

I have used 'modern' impedance analyzers at clients. They were all more
fancy but somehow it felt like moving to an automatic transmission
(which I won't...). When my 4191 shows me a numeric result I know I can
count on that.

If you or someone else has the time check the RAM battery. I was
surprised how long mine lasted but there just comes a time and you don't
want it to leak. If the display begins to show ghibberish look at the
power supply. Had that once on mine (an electrolytic shorted) and once
at a client (cap dried out).

Regards, Joerg

Is it one of those 2k * 8 bit battery backed RAM modules? We
replaced them with NVRAM from ZMD. I believe that they were from the
Capstore series. We were having a high failure rate on new battery
backed RAM modules, and some were coming from the distributor with
random data in them, so we had to put them into one of the older EPROM
programmers to erase the data. We switched to the NVRAM and found that
it worked properly in every design that had used the older part.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Joerg]

Hello Michael,

Is it one of those 2k * 8 bit battery backed RAM modules? We
replaced them with NVRAM from ZMD. I believe that they were from the
Capstore series. We were having a high failure rate on new battery
backed RAM modules, and some were coming from the distributor with
random data in them, so we had to put them into one of the older EPROM
programmers to erase the data. We switched to the NVRAM and found that
it worked properly in every design that had used the older part.

It is just a stack of two NiCd cells. Hard to get at, almost like
changing the transmission on a car.

But thanks for the hint. I believe there is something like that in the
logic analyzer and some day that will come up with a similar warning.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Hello Michael,


It is just a stack of two NiCd cells. Hard to get at, almost like
changing the transmission on a car.

I did that twice on my '66 GTO in 1972. I did it with a couple
concrete blocks, a bumper jack, two open ended wrenches and two pieces
of TV antenna mast. You don't really need a transmission jack, if
you're crazy enough to lift it onto your chest and hold it up in place
while you put the bolts back in. ;-) It took a lot longer to change the
engine six months before that.

But thanks for the hint. I believe there is something like that in the
logic analyzer and some day that will come up with a similar warning.

Regards, Joerg

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Joerg]

Hello Michael,

I did that twice on my '66 GTO in 1972. I did it with a couple
concrete blocks, a bumper jack, two open ended wrenches and two pieces
of TV antenna mast. You don't really need a transmission jack, if
you're crazy enough to lift it onto your chest and hold it up in place
while you put the bolts back in. ;-) It took a lot longer to change the
engine six months before that.

A friend and I did that on an old Opel in Europe to replace a broken
reverse gear. Just on the border to the Netherlands, German side. Didn't
have anything but some adjustable wrenches. Drove the car onto the curb
and dropped the transmission. Then we had to schlepp it across the
border because I lived in NL. Should have seen the looks of the border
agents. We took it all apart on the kitchen table while slowly emptying
a crate of Grolsch. Tried our best to lay out a gazillion parts in order
so we could get it back together w/o service manual. Or course, after
some beers we kind of became loose with the order of the parts. We put
it back in, waited until next morning for the test drive, on account of
the beers. The miracle: While there was a wee noise in reverse the usual
toughness of these transmission on downshifting from 3rd into 2nd was
completely gone. It worked like butter. We had improved a product and
didn't even know why or how.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

"Remember the recent flap over Agilent's lawyer shutting down
'bama manuals (Boat Anchor Manual Archive)? "

Hadn't heard about this...could you expand on this?

Thanks

TMT

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

"Remember the recent flap over Agilent's lawyer shutting down
'bama manuals (Boat Anchor Manual Archive)? "

Hadn't heard about this...could you expand on this?

Thanks

TMT

 

[Winfield Hill]

Too_Many_Tools wrote...

"Remember the recent flap over Agilent's lawyer shutting down
'bama manuals (Boat Anchor Manual Archive)? "

Hadn't heard about this...could you expand on this?

It happened six to 12 months ago, IIRC, and was discussed
here and on the web. After a few weeks Agilent relented.
It seemed they intended to prevent copying without their
explicit permission, which they provided after some type
of request was made. We didn't learn any details about
the process, but after a slow painful restart, BAMA once
again served up free HP manuals.

Use Google to find more.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

" It happened six to 12 months ago, IIRC, and was discussed
here and on the web. After a few weeks Agilent relented.
It seemed they intended to prevent copying without their
explicit permission, which they provided after some type
of request was made. We didn't learn any details about
the process, but after a slow painful restart, BAMA once
again served up free HP manuals.

Use Google to find more. "

Thanks for the update....I did not know anything had happened except
for awhile BAMA seemed to be unaccessible. I will check Google for the
rest.

TMT

 

[Tim Shoppa]

I have two classic HP9100 desktop calculators,

truly astounding technology for their time... CRT display,
all transistor logic, core memory, three
different rom technologies, including multilayer
inductive-coupled pcb. Both are dead, and HP
never released the schematics, so I can't fix them.
I've pestered several successive HP
archivists, who say

Yes, we have the schematics

No, you can't see them.

Well, the "old HP" doesn't exist anymore. We have Agilent and the "New
Age Pee" instead, and while I think that Agilent eventually came around
with respect to interest in old equipment and documentation, the "New
Age Pee" has completely pissed off everyone. Since the 9100 was not a
piece of test equipment, we can be pretty sure that nobody at Agilent
is willing to take ownership of the documenation.

BTW, my HP9100A was used to calculate the initial slingshot orbital
boosts to Pioneer 11. (Not by me, I found it a decade later in the
trash, along with the pen-plotter.)

Tim.