Maker Pro
Maker Pro

how does this flasher stand up in the long haul!

J

Jamie

470

5 VOLTS ___
-|___|-+----------+
| |
| |
| + 2N2222
| <|
+ |-
| /|
--- |
1000 uf --- |
+ .-.
| | |
| | | 120
| '-'
| |
| |
| V ->
| -
| |
| |
=== ===
GND GND


Jamie
 
J

Jamie

John said:
Does that actually flash? With just a 5 volt supply?

John
no it does not, I just through some values at it, I just wanted opinions
about zenering the emitter. normally you would use at least 10volts or
more..

I always thought avalanching the (BE) wasn't a very good idea.


Jamie
 
J

Jamie

NT said:
An SCR should work, or 2 trs connected to make an scr


NT
yes, but this will unlatch and flash for you.

This circuit is very simply. I was just curious as to longevity of
the transistor in such a configuration.

Jamie
 
J

Jamie

John said:
---
Thanks for that; I wasn't aware of it.
---




---
I tried other lower voltages, but they didn't work either, so I just
left it at 25.

Here it is with a ramp:

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE 96 16 -16 16
WIRE 240 16 96 16
WIRE 240 48 240 16
WIRE -16 80 -16 16
WIRE 96 80 96 16
WIRE 240 160 240 144
WIRE -16 240 -16 160
WIRE 240 272 240 240
WIRE -16 368 -16 320
WIRE 96 368 96 144
WIRE 96 368 -16 368
WIRE 240 368 240 336
WIRE 240 368 96 368
WIRE -16 432 -16 368
FLAG -16 432 0
SYMBOL npn 304 144 R180
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2N2222
SYMBOL res 224 144 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 100
SYMBOL cap 80 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 100p
SYMBOL voltage -16 224 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 25 0 100)
SYMBOL res -32 64 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL LED 224 272 R0
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value NSSWS108T
TEXT 16 392 Left 2 !.tran 100 startup uic

I tried it with lots of different capacitances, and although there's a
funny nonlinearity in the emitter current below about 12V, there's no
oscillation anywhere that I can see.
I learned about this effect years ago when I had to repair something
that was oscillating because the base resistor became open on a npn
circuit. I thought it was a fluke, defective transistor etc. It was
later that I found out it was a known effect. Some where around 1980 or
so..

And no, LtSpice wont show it. Why? I don't know.

Jamie
 
J

John S

Can anybody explain the voltages and currents here?

LTSpice doesn't know how to handle the reverse voltage on the base nor
the reverse voltage on the anode of the diode. That is, it doesn't
handle reverse breakdown as you said in your last post in this thread.
 
J

Jamie

John said:
Can anybody explain the voltages and currents here?

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE -224 -32 -288 -32
WIRE -224 16 -224 -32
WIRE -96 64 -160 64
WIRE 64 64 -16 64
WIRE 112 64 64 64
WIRE 224 64 192 64
WIRE 64 112 64 64
WIRE 224 128 224 64
WIRE -224 160 -224 112
WIRE 64 240 64 192
WIRE 224 240 224 192
FLAG 64 240 0
FLAG 224 240 0
FLAG -224 160 0
SYMBOL diode 208 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value 1N914
SYMBOL voltage 64 96 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value -100000
SYMBOL res 208 48 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1K
SYMBOL npn -160 16 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2N2222
SYMBOL res 0 48 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 1K
SYMBOL res -272 -48 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 1K
TEXT 280 80 Left 2 !.tran 0 1 0
Like our QC slogan goes at work "We Test to pass not test to fail!"

Nice how there isn't any Vbe R-break down either!

Jamie
 
J

John S

There is a valid point or two here.

Spice can lie about real life; you've got to be careful to get useful
sims.

When all you know is Ohm's Law, everything looks like a resistor.


Incidentally, that flasher circuit can work with the open-base
transistor installed in either direction.

The negative resistance region in the OP's emitter-up flasher circuit
is interesting. It's like transistor action, but the e-b carriers are
coming from zener action, not the normal carrier injection thing.
Something like that. Nobody answered his question, namely whether this
mode degrades the transistor.

The emitter-down version is avalanche transistor mode, at higher
voltages. Tek used avalanche transistors in lots of sampling scopes,
and they often still work, so it must be good for trillions of shots.

John

And... what about the emitter-up version lifespans?
 
J

Jamie

John said:
---
Trying to bring down a winner, as usual?

If you find fault with the diode model, why not fix it by writing your
own and posting it to Helmut's group.

Will you?

No.

Can you?

No.

All this from a simple request of how long would the transistor last
being used this way..

Oh Well. I didn't know I was so good at opening up a can of worms.

But JK did bring something to my attention about spice I wasn't
aware of. That just goes to show how much I really use spice.. ;)

Jamie
 
J

John S

Zenering a b-e junction is known to degrade beta, so something's
moving around inside there. But the flasher web sites claim the thing
is reliable. So who knows?

John

I guess that means we can at least count you out.
 
J

John S

All this from a simple request of how long would the transistor last
being used this way..

Oh Well. I didn't know I was so good at opening up a can of worms.

But JK did bring something to my attention about spice I wasn't
aware of. That just goes to show how much I really use spice.. ;)

Jamie

To which JK are you referring?
 
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