Hooking up dual igition coil.

[Sam Nickaby]

I came across this dual coil and dual ignition module kit. The price is
around a thousand dollar. This sound way too expensive. I want to build
one for my own vehicle but I not sure if the secondary output of the two
coils should be tied together. For instance, if I tie the secondary port together
would I achieve a bigger spark? I would need some help on this part. How
should I hooked this up so that it'll work reliably?

http://www.quickcar.net/ign_sys/ign_sys.html

Thanks

 

[TE Cheah]

| dual ignition module kit
must be for @least 8 cylinders

| around a thousand dollar.
1 can buy 2 separate sets for less. No detail of coil ( # of turns ),
circuit ( inductive, capacitive discharge ), output voltage & ampere
graph, input ampere needed.

 

[Guest]

I came across this dual coil and dual ignition module kit. The price is
around a thousand dollar. This sound way too expensive. I want to build
one for my own vehicle but I not sure if the secondary output of the two
coils should be tied together. For instance, if I tie the secondary port together
would I achieve a bigger spark? I would need some help on this part. How
should I hooked this up so that it'll work reliably?

http://www.quickcar.net/ign_sys/ign_sys.html

Thanks

What kind of race car do you have?
None?? Dont waste your money.

 

[steamer]

--Still working on the flame thrower, eh? Maybe you could find some
more input at the pyro tribe? That's where I've been learning how to do this
sort of thing..

 

[Steve]

I came across this dual coil and dual ignition module kit. The price is
around a thousand dollar. This sound way too expensive. I want to build
one for my own vehicle but I not sure if the secondary output of the two
coils should be tied together.

Good grief.

Like I said in another thread... put DOWN the harbor freight crimp tool
and step AWAY from the car. You're gonna hurt yourself.

Or at least learn HOW dual ignition works before you start trying to
hack one together!!!

 

[Bobscar]

The Ford Escort HCS 1.1 & 1.3 litre engine uses a double dual output
distributorless system. In these systems one cylinder will be on firing
stroke with the other cylinder on its exhaust stroke. The Escort is
wired so that cylinders 1&4 fire together with cylinder1 firing
cylinder4 exhaust. Cylinders 2&3 fire together on the alternate period
of the ignition module operation. The firing order is 1-2-4-3.
Therefore cylinder 2 will be ready to fire after cylinder 1.
1F-2C-4E-3I.

1E-2F-4I-3C.

1I-2E-4C-3F.

1C-2I-4F-3E.

1F-2C-4E-3I. and so on again.

Bobscar.

 

[[email protected]]

The Ford Escort HCS 1.1 & 1.3 litre engine uses a double dual output
distributorless system. In these systems one cylinder will be on firing
stroke with the other cylinder on its exhaust stroke. The Escort is

Wasted Spark ignition system. Common on a lot of engines.

This isn't what the OP is asking about. What he referenced is a dual
plug/dual ignition system. But as another poster asked, what for?
Unless you are racing and have a real need for redundancy it will buy
you almost nothing. This also requires a head that has two spark plug
holes. This buys one redundancy and the added benefit of two flame
fronts in the cylinder.

The OP wants to have two coils discharge into a single plug. There is
absolutely nothing to be gained by doing this. I can think of a lot of
complications in attempting to do this, with nothing to be gained
except a lot of RFI and probably a few electrical shocks.

 

[[email protected]]

The OP wants to have two coils discharge into a single plug. There is

absolutely nothing to be gained by doing this.

It's sometimes used on auto engines converted for aircraft use,
where there's no possible or practical way of installing a second plug
in the head. In those systems, there's a plastic block for each plug
wire attached to the firewall, and two inputs from the distributors
into each block. Inside the block, there are three electrodes in close
proximity but not touching, and the spark from each coil jumps from its
electrode to the plug wire electrode. Often one system is turned off
since it's only there for redundancy, not a hotter spark. Airplanes
don't fly well if the ignition quits, so a second spark source is
handy.
Wiring coil outputs in parallel doesn't raise spark voltage but
might increase the current a bit if both are timed *exactly* the same,
which is unlikely. Two plugs will increase power if done right. It does
in an aircraft engine. Two flame fronts raise the pressure a little
faster than one, but we're also talking pretty big combustion chambers
compared to an auto's.
Dual ignition retrofits sound to me to be one of those
snob-value things that does little more than make money for the
aftermarket goodies guys.

Dan

 

[[email protected]]

I came across this dual coil and dual ignition module kit. The price is
around a thousand dollar. This sound way too expensive. I want to build
one for my own vehicle but I not sure if the secondary output of the two
coils should be tied together. For instance, if I tie the secondary port together
would I achieve a bigger spark? I would need some help on this part. How
should I hooked this up so that it'll work reliably?

http://www.quickcar.net/ign_sys/ign_sys.html

Thanks

From that site:

125° Celsius cross linked Polyethylene Insulated Wire

I say it's bogus. Who needs wire that's rated slightly above boiling
water? Give me silicone!

I had a central spark plug in my Derbi DS 50 so I broke off the
electrode, added a stainless ball electrode to the piston, and sparked
from plug to piston. I can't say if it actually made the bike faster
but it was a clean concept and a fun project. With a higher tension
system it might have made some improvement, but then hotter sparks
usually do, don't they?

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394

 

[steamer]

--Hey that's neat if a little weird! Wouldn't it dissipate the
charge thru the engine that way?

 

[[email protected]]

Hey, there Ed.

Yes, the whole engine is one big ground block.

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394

 

[[email protected]]

I had a central spark plug in my Derbi DS 50 so I broke off the
electrode, added a stainless ball electrode to the piston, and sparked
from plug to piston. I can't say if it actually made the bike faster
but it was a clean concept and a fun project. With a higher tension
system it might have made some improvement, but then hotter sparks
usually do, don't they?

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394

Woudn't this restrict your ignition timing to always have to be very
near TDC?

I guess it would depend on how long the crank arm was and how much
travel there is in 20-30* or crank movement at the top of the arc.

JW

 

[[email protected]]

JW asked if the piston electrode limited timing to near TDC.

Well, 2-strokes have timing near TDC, I think. 4-strokes use advance.

But still, with a gap of 0.30 conceivable, and a crank arm throw radius
of, say, 3 inches, that's 100:1.

Now, the cos function is changing near 0 at around 1:100 per degree.

So, yes, it does seem that one degree of throw could limit spark to
very near TDC.

Does anyone disagree? I am not so experienced working this type of
thing out.

My little 2-strok

 

[Guest]

Does anyone disagree? I am not so experienced working this type of
thing out.

My little 2-strok

I haven't done the math, but intuitively I see no other way than that the
spark has to be rather near TDC when using this sort of configuration.

On a lot of little 2 and 4 stroke cycle engines, the timing is static and
there
is no advance provision as they are intended to be run in a rather narrow
rpm range.

Advance would be desirable on either type of engine if you wanted to
optimize the performance over a wider rpm band.

 

[JoeBloe]

My little 2-strok

Look up the word VAR in a technical manual somewhere.

VAR: Volt Ampere Reactive

 

[The Dougster]

Look up the word VAR in a technical manual somewhere.

VAR: Volt Ampere Reactive

Why?

Doug

 

[Johnny Boy]

Look up the word VAR in a technical manual somewhere.

VAR: Volt Ampere Reactive

Take an AC volt, an AC amp, blend carefully and... voila ... an AC watt

 

[Eeyore]

Take an AC volt, an AC amp, blend carefully and... voila ... an AC watt

No. That's a VA. Volt-Ampere aka 'apparent power'. Watts are quite
different, as in *true power*. However..... since transformers are rated by
VA and not watts, this is the one to use in this case.

Graham

 

[JoeBloe]

No. That's a VA. Volt-Ampere aka 'apparent power'. Watts are quite
different, as in *true power*. However..... since transformers are rated by
VA and not watts, this is the one to use in this case.

No, asshole! Wrong again. You left out the R. It is Volt-Ampere
REACTIVE, and it is quite real.

Also, quite different from the VA rating for a transformer.

 

[JoeBloe]

Why?

Because that IS an "AC watt", which IS the question asked.