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Homemade Thermopile

J

John Larkin

ARRGH! Stupid brainfart mistake on my part. I *wish* I could get
millivolts out of a junction!

(Hangs head in shame)

Another neat power source is a beta-decay battery. Only problem is
that it generates nanoamps at, say, a few hundred kilovolts. Sort of
the opposite of the thermocouple problem.

John
 
J

John Larkin

Here is an idea that might work with third-world tech:

Stick the cold side of the thermopile in a river.

Heat the hot side with a big fresnel lens molded out of
recycled glass.

Manual labor to keep the hot spot focused on the thermopile
as the sun moves.

Panels coated with strontium aluminate. Carry out during the day,
charge with sunlight, carry in at dusk for night-time lighting.

John
 
It isn't unlimited or free unless you can extract it with a system
that has material, labor, and operational costs all equal to zero.


If you have free labor, have it flip burgers at McDonalds and buy
electricity from your local power company with the paycheck it gets.
You will get a LOT more energy from the same amount of labor.


Especially with the California minimum wage... $7.50/hr effective
1/1/07, $8.00/hr effective 1/1/08...
http://www.dir.ca.gov/Iwc/MinimumWageHistory.htm

Probably more in the San Francisco area.

For $8, what can you get... hmm... at $0.15/kw-hr, that's just over 53
kW-hr, or 192 Megajoules...

At $3.30/gallon gasoline, that's 2.4 gallons of gasoline...

M
 
Especially with the California minimum wage... $7.50/hr effective
1/1/07, $8.00/hr effective 1/1/08...http://www.dir.ca.gov/Iwc/MinimumWageHistory.htm

Probably more in the San Francisco area.

For $8, what can you get... hmm... at $0.15/kw-hr, that's just over 53
kW-hr, or 192 Megajoules...

At $3.30/gallon gasoline, that's 2.4 gallons of gasoline...

M


Silly me, I forgot all about Federal and State Income Taxes, Social
Security and Medicare...

Ok, multiply all of the above energy values by a factor of 0.7 or so.

M
 
Here is an idea that might work with third-world tech:

Stick the cold side of the thermopile in a river.

Heat the hot side with a big fresnel lens molded out of
recycled glass.

Manual labor to keep the hot spot focused on the thermopile
as the sun moves.


For third-world tech, I kinda liked the idea of using charcoal made
from coconut shells. Elegant, in a way: converting a waste product
into a useful fuel. Although, the method of manufacture does tend to
make a stink and make the eyes water (form into a big pile, then
ignite) - I fear the California Air Resources Board would frown on
that here.

M
 
J

John Larkin

Especially with the California minimum wage... $7.50/hr effective
1/1/07, $8.00/hr effective 1/1/08...
http://www.dir.ca.gov/Iwc/MinimumWageHistory.htm

Probably more in the San Francisco area.

For $8, what can you get... hmm... at $0.15/kw-hr, that's just over 53
kW-hr, or 192 Megajoules...

At $3.30/gallon gasoline, that's 2.4 gallons of gasoline...

M

And at 20 cents per pound, that's 40 pounds of potatoes. At 40 cents a
pound, that's 20 pounds of rice.

John
 
B

Barry Lennox

I wonder how their efficiency and voltage output compare to
a modern Peltier cooler operated as a generator.

Probably quite a lot lower, as I imagine a charcoal fire would waste
about 95% of it's output heating the local forest.

Barry
 
D

Dunc

Does anybody know how to (or where to find out how to)calculate the
power output (Watts)from a thermopile?
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

For third-world tech, I kinda liked the idea of using charcoal made
from coconut shells. Elegant, in a way: converting a waste product
into a useful fuel. Although, the method of manufacture does tend to
make a stink and make the eyes water (form into a big pile, then
ignite) - I fear the California Air Resources Board would frown on
that here.


Not if you made charcoal out of them.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
B

Benj

Here is an idea that might work with third-world tech:

Stick the cold side of the thermopile in a river.

Heat the hot side with a big fresnel lens molded out of
recycled glass.

Manual labor to keep the hot spot focused on the thermopile
as the sun moves.

Yes, this is something that could work reasonably well for some
things. I recall a device made back in the Cold war to run radios
(presumably to listen to Western propaganda). It consisted of a hood
for a kerosene lantern. The flame heated the interior and it had fins
all around it for the cold side. Supposedly ran a radio reasonably
well. But then today solar cells run a radio reasonably well and you
don't have to dip one end in the river either!

In case nobody knows it, thermocouples have such low output
(Millivolts) that they are useful only for temperature difference
measurements. However modern Peltier coolers are decently efficient
and operate both as coolers and power generators. These days the
commercial ones aren't especially expensive either. Perhaps too
expensive for third world use but can potentially last forever which
helps justify the cost. (roughly $20 a module, but I see there is
some new joint chinese-japanese company that is claiming massive
reduction in costs so that could make a difference)
 
Not if you made charcoal out of them.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida


You're probably right, if the coconut shells are processed properly
(charcoal retort, etc.) In the Philippines, they just make a pile of
green waste on the side of the street, and ignite it. Not
particularly efficient, but it does seem to work (several hours of
teary-eyed smoke later).

M
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

ARRGH! Stupid brainfart mistake on my part. I *wish* I could get
millivolts out of a junction!

(Hangs head in shame)

Another neat power source is a beta-decay battery. Only problem is that
it generates nanoamps at, say, a few hundred kilovolts. Sort of the
opposite of the thermocouple problem.[/QUOTE]

So, we've got beta decay at one end of the spectrum, and thermoelectricity
at the other, clearly we need to seek a source of energy at the zero point. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich the Philosophizer

Yeah! Three little zeros. And what's a zero? Nothing!

(Still kicking myself over stupid brain fart. Maybe it's time to get
into management...)

No, no! Anything but *management*!!

Learn to use those brain farts to show you what parts of reality
you're missing out on:
http://godchannel.com/4steps.html#step3

Cheers!
Rich
 
J

John Popelish

So, we've got beta decay at one end of the spectrum, and thermoelectricity
at the other, clearly we need to seek a source of energy at the zero point. ;-)

Unfortunately, using that power source vaporizes everything
in every direction within a parsec.
 
Y

YD

Late at night, by candle light, John Larkin
An iron-copper thermocouple can be made from hardware-store stuff. It
will give about 50 microvolts per degree C temp differential, and you
can put multiple junctions in series to get more voltage. Of course,
the resistance goes up as the heat source:sink distance goes up, and
as you add thermocouples in series. Done just right, expect thermal
efficiency on the ballpark of 0.5%. It's unlikely that you can harvest
even a couple of milliwatts from the sorts of sources you mention. A
10 degree C temp differential is about 500 uV per couple, so you'd
need ballpark 3,000 thermocouples in series to light an LED.

Older water heaters and furnaces use a thermocouple, in the pilot
flame, to hold in the gas solenoid valve. I guess they use multiple
junctions, too. 50 millivolts is typical here.


The iron will rust, too.

John

I recall reading about a transistor radio powered by a kerosene lamp.
Lots of thermocouples surrounding the chimney, looked like a
cylindrical porcupine.

- YD.
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

I tried that, and noticed a rather large *lack* of energy on my part.

So I drank some more and didn't care.

In Hudson, WI, you can get three different brands (that I know of) of
180 proof (90%) ethanol. Yes, Everclear is one of them. :)

You have to drink it a third- to half-shot at a time, (otherwise it'll
kick your ass under the table) but, if it's used properly, it's a very
nice buzz. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

My boss seems to think mine is. ;-)

And at 20 cents per pound, that's 40 pounds of potatoes. At 40 cents a
pound, that's 20 pounds of rice.

But, then, how many megajoules is it to cook them?

Thanks,
Rich
 
J

John Larkin

My boss seems to think mine is. ;-)



But, then, how many megajoules is it to cook them?

Thanks,
Rich

One potato, 5 minutes in a microwave at 800 watts, 240 kilojoules,
0.066 kwh, costs about a penny. The real expense is the butter and
sour cream and the fillet mignon.

John
 
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