Homemade device/IC/LCD/Buttons/Processors/Chips/Beeper possible/affordable ??

[Skybuck Flying]

Hi,

I am a newby at IC's

It might be fun to write some code and then dump it onto some kind of chip,
maybe hook it up to something... how about some lame lights/leds or maybe
even cooler a small LCD display ??? wieeee =D to display some text on or
maybe even some graphics ?! and maybe some kind of beeper or other thingy
which can produce voice/sound etc. ?

And maybe even some buttons for input.

I don't want to spent a fortune at playing around with all this stuff

What are my options ?

Somebody said to look into FPGA's etc...

What kind of device is needed to "burn ?" a FGPA ?

How much does all this cost ?

Somebody else mentioned PCB's etc...

I have read a story about how PCB's might contain chemicals which could
cause cancer in the first 24 hours when used.

What do you guys know about this stuff ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Guy Macon]

Hi,

I am a newby at IC's

It might be fun to write some code and then dump it onto some kind of chip,
maybe hook it up to something... how about some lame lights/leds or maybe
even cooler a small LCD display ??? wieeee =D to display some text on or
maybe even some graphics ?! and maybe some kind of beeper or other thingy
which can produce voice/sound etc. ?

And maybe even some buttons for input.

I don't want to spent a fortune at playing around with all this stuff

What are my options ?

Somebody said to look into FPGA's etc...

What kind of device is needed to "burn ?" a FGPA ?

How much does all this cost ?

Somebody else mentioned PCB's etc...

I have read a story about how PCB's might contain chemicals which could
cause cancer in the first 24 hours when used.

What do you guys know about this stuff ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

Stop listening to whoever it is that told you to start with PCBs or
FPGAs. Those are not for beginners who just want to play around.
That's like telling someone who just wants to build a model airplane
and see if it flies that he should start with a space shuttle or a
machine shop.

I suggest that you start with a BasicX BX-24. Cheap, easy to use,
can do a bunch of stuff. Then, if you later want to get into more
advanced areas, you will have an idea as to which way to go.

Start by looking here:

The BX-24:
http://www.basicx.com/ (spend some time browsing around)

Cool things that other people have done with them:
http://www.basicx.com/custapps/custapps.htm

Some of the stuff you are likely to want to get:
http://www.basicx.com/Products/BXDS/BXDS24/bx24devkit.htm
http://www.basicx.com/Products/SLCD/2X16LCDoverview.htm
http://www.basicx.com/Products/Parts/BlackBXdEVbRD-LCDsmall.gif

BTW, if anyone tries to steer you towards a Basic Stamp instead of
a BasicX, ask them if they have looked at the price, performance,
and features of both products. The Basic Stamp was the first -
which is why it's so popular - but it's no longer the best.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Stop listening to whoever it is that told you to start with PCBs or
FPGAs. Those are not for beginners who just want to play around.
That's like telling someone who just wants to build a model airplane
and see if it flies that he should start with a space shuttle or a
machine shop.

I suggest that you start with a BasicX BX-24. Cheap, easy to use,
can do a bunch of stuff. Then, if you later want to get into more
advanced areas, you will have an idea as to which way to go.

Start by looking here:

The BX-24:
http://www.basicx.com/ (spend some time browsing around)

Well I don't know if this basicx chip is the right thing for me

It has so much functionality... it's like a tiny little pc, with a network
card and ram and a clock and everything onboard.

While I might be a hardware newby I am not a software newby

And I really do want to make/write my own little super extremely little risc
chip as someone called it

My little cpu should be able to do what an intel/athlon can do and beyond:
( Actually the basicx can do what an intel and athlon can do probably
even more )

1. memory operations. ( copy memory, etc )
2. integer operations. ( addition, multiply, etc )
3. maybe even some kind of floating point or rational number math.
4. boolean support
5. jump instructions
6. communication with main memory etc

So I have defined two requirements:

1. A little cpu chip. Maybe if it's little enough I could simply build it
with gates and stuff like or,and,nand,xor and all kinds of stuff.
2. A memory chip. Where data and instructions will be.

However I need to be able to test the chip.

I want it to add or multiply 2 big integer numbers and display it across an
LCD display or maybe even some leds will do (scrolling leds yeeeah ! )

Maybe some buttons or thingies to input the numbers or binary numbers or
whatever switches lol from the past haha

Maybe later I could make:

3. A network like chip
4. Any other communicating thingy.

I want to try and make a whole new kind of chippie

Just to see if it can be done

Then later it might be cool to have some kind of communicating going between
my pc and the thingy
maybe via serial port <- lame, or via a special device <- cool, or via
something wireless like bluetooth or something <- extremely cool

I have no idea what the cost of this could be.

I can imagine a couple of scenerio's:

1. Many ten thousands of euro's/dollars for all kinds of high-tech stuff.
2. A few thousand bucks for one or maybe multiple fpga's and a burning(?)
device.
3. Screw above 2 options and try to make the designs realllllllly small and
try and build it with
hopefully really cheap gates like or, and, nand, xor, etc

The basicx sounds like great fun for kids, and older kids but at the
moment it's not what I want to do.

So if it turns out to be way too expensive I have two options left:

A. Write it in VHDL. But this would be useless.
B. Write the tiny cpu in pascal/delphi as a test program then later I might
even use it in bigger applications
Like an embedded cpu inside an application for maximum flexiblity.

Actually option B sounds mighty jummy but chippies are fun too a whole
new area to explore

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Noone]

However I need to be able to test the chip.

I want it to add or multiply 2 big integer numbers and display it across an
LCD display or maybe even some leds will do (scrolling leds yeeeah ! )

Maybe some buttons or thingies to input the numbers or binary numbers or
whatever switches lol from the past haha

Maybe later I could make:

3. A network like chip
4. Any other communicating thingy.

I want to try and make a whole new kind of chippie

Just to see if it can be done

Then later it might be cool to have some kind of communicating going between
my pc and the thingy
maybe via serial port <- lame, or via a special device <- cool, or via
something wireless like bluetooth or something <- extremely cool

I have no idea what the cost of this could be.

I can imagine a couple of scenerio's:

1. Many ten thousands of euro's/dollars for all kinds of high-tech stuff.
2. A few thousand bucks for one or maybe multiple fpga's and a burning(?)
device.
3. Screw above 2 options and try to make the designs realllllllly small and
try and build it with
hopefully really cheap gates like or, and, nand, xor, etc

The basicx sounds like great fun for kids, and older kids but at the
moment it's not what I want to do.

So if it turns out to be way too expensive I have two options left:

A. Write it in VHDL. But this would be useless.
B. Write the tiny cpu in pascal/delphi as a test program then later I might
even use it in bigger applications
Like an embedded cpu inside an application for maximum flexiblity.

Actually option B sounds mighty jummy but chippies are fun too a whole
new area to explore

Bye,
Skybuck.

You could look at opensource projects on processor architecture. They have a
variety of synthesizable cores. Or you could go back a bit in hardware/time and
look in the old Bit Slice approach - AMD and Mick & Brick's Bit Slice Design
Series/Book.

Blakely

 

[John Larkin]

Hi,

I am a newby at IC's

It might be fun to write some code and then dump it onto some kind of chip,
maybe hook it up to something... how about some lame lights/leds or maybe
even cooler a small LCD display ??? wieeee =D to display some text on or
maybe even some graphics ?! and maybe some kind of beeper or other thingy
which can produce voice/sound etc. ?

And maybe even some buttons for input.

I don't want to spent a fortune at playing around with all this stuff

What are my options ?

Somebody said to look into FPGA's etc...

What kind of device is needed to "burn ?" a FGPA ?

How much does all this cost ?

Somebody else mentioned PCB's etc...

I have read a story about how PCB's might contain chemicals which could
cause cancer in the first 24 hours when used.

What do you guys know about this stuff ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

There are several Xilinx FPGA demo boards around. A Xilinx chip is a
general-purpose logic chip, full of fairly simple logic blocks and
routing switches. It's dynamically programmed, as often as you like.

The Xilinx WebPack software is free, and a demo board costs something
like $150. They usually have a breadboard area for adding other stuff,
and an i/o connector and some led's you can blink. You design and
compile on a PC, and load the resulting config file into the FPGA to
implement your logic design.

You can program a Xilinx by schematic entry of virtual parts (gates,
counters, flipflops) or you can program in Verilog or VHDL. I'd
strongly recommend you do both, schematics first, and not treat FPGA
design as just another programming language.

Read up on "synchronous state machines" so you don't wind up an async
hairball 555-timer sort of designer. For extra credit, interface the
Xilinx to an ADC or a DAC, make some sounds or filter effects maybe.

John

 

[Guy Macon]

And I really do want to make/write my own little super extremely little risc
chip as someone called it

Ah My mistake. I assumed that when you wrote that you wanted to "write
some code and then dump it onto some kind of chip, maybe hook it up to
something...small LCD display...some kind of beeper...buttons for input"
that you wanted to write some code and then dump it onto some kind of
chip and hook it up to something such as a small LCD display, some kind
of beeper, etc.

And I really do want to make/write my own little super extremely
little risc chip

A little cpu chip. Maybe if it's little enough I could simply
build it with gates and stuff like or,and,nand,xor and all
kinds of stuff.

try and build it with hopefully really cheap gates like or, and,
nand, xor, etc

Assuming that what you wrote above is what you wish to do, why not
just start doing it? You will need:

A proto-board (small, white plastic, has holes in it for ICs and
resistors, capacitors, etc., everything connects with jumper wires)
Somewhere along the line you will, no doubt, wish to switch to a
construction method that allows more complexity, but the proto-board
is a fine place to start.

A cheap 5V power supply.

A bunch of 74HCxxx parts and a few other kinds of parts.

Time and effort to learn all the things you will need to learn.

-------------------------------------------------------

First you should build a logic probe. This is a circuit you
can connect to other circuits to see whether they are putting
out a 1 or a zero. Many circuits on the web.

Your next step will be to build a clock circuit. I suggest
starting with a frequency of 32.768 KHz. Millions and millions
of tiny RISC processors are in service running at that speed.
Later you can think about going faster. Many circuits on the web.

Next, build a divider so you can reduce your clock to 1 Hz for
testing purposes - so you can see what's going on.

Then you start putting together your logic gates. You can add
flip-flops for RAM, jumpers for ROM. LEDs for outputs, switches
for inputs, etc.

[ http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ ] shows just such a sistem. With 200
TTL chips, he has something that runs a full a full ANSI C compiler
and serves web pages. You should be able to do he far simpler tasks
that you describe with fewer chips.

Also see:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/05/06/06/1118242.shtml?tid=222&tid=1

 

[JeffM]

I am a newby at IC's

It might be fun to write some code and then dump it onto some kind of chip
Skybuck Flying

The lowest entry barrier is a
http://www.google.com/images?q=prot...trixcenter+-robotfactory+-hamhud+-telepostinc
(get DIP parts--not SMD/SMT)

and either of these
http://groups-beta.google.com/group...*-*-*-*-begginers+very-simple+free-c-compiler

(More PIC-vs-AVR zealotry here)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group...-many-kinks+that-just-aren't-there-in-the-AVR

Tools
http://groups-beta.google.com/group...g-debugger+gcc+sdcc+picp+no-good+no-real-good
..
..
The best sources of information
are more specialized groups than this one. e.g.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jallist
http://www.avrfreaks.net
http://www.piclist.com

Most beginner's question can be answered thru the Usenet Archives:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded

 

[Wim Ton]

Hi,

I am a newby at IC's

It might be fun to write some code and then dump it onto some kind of chip,
maybe hook it up to something... how about some lame lights/leds or maybe
even cooler a small LCD display ??? wieeee =D to display some text on or
maybe even some graphics ?! and maybe some kind of beeper or other thingy
which can produce voice/sound etc. ?

And maybe even some buttons for input.

I don't want to spent a fortune at playing around with all this stuff

What are my options ?

Somebody said to look into FPGA's etc...

What kind of device is needed to "burn ?" a FGPA ?

How much does all this cost ?

Elektor magazine has a board for an Altera FPGA with some LEDs, 7segments
and buttons http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk A demo version of the
Altera software can be found on the Altera website.

Wim

 

[Tom]

Yes, a proto board and 74xxx TTL chips - lots of fun.

See if you can find a copy of Dan Lancaster's TTL Cookbook (I just
checked ebay and amazon - you are in luck).

Have fun.

The good old days, when we could home build and program from scratch
machines as good as what you could buy.

Tom

Skybuck Flying wrote:

And I really do want to make/write my own little super extremely little risc
chip as someone called it

Ah My mistake. I assumed that when you wrote that you wanted to "write
some code and then dump it onto some kind of chip, maybe hook it up to
something...small LCD display...some kind of beeper...buttons for input"
that you wanted to write some code and then dump it onto some kind of
chip and hook it up to something such as a small LCD display, some kind
of beeper, etc.

And I really do want to make/write my own little super extremely
little risc chip

A little cpu chip. Maybe if it's little enough I could simply
build it with gates and stuff like or,and,nand,xor and all
kinds of stuff.

try and build it with hopefully really cheap gates like or, and,
nand, xor, etc

Assuming that what you wrote above is what you wish to do, why not
just start doing it? You will need:

A proto-board (small, white plastic, has holes in it for ICs and
resistors, capacitors, etc., everything connects with jumper wires)
Somewhere along the line you will, no doubt, wish to switch to a
construction method that allows more complexity, but the proto-board
is a fine place to start.

A cheap 5V power supply.

A bunch of 74HCxxx parts and a few other kinds of parts.

Time and effort to learn all the things you will need to learn.

-------------------------------------------------------

First you should build a logic probe. This is a circuit you
can connect to other circuits to see whether they are putting
out a 1 or a zero. Many circuits on the web.

Your next step will be to build a clock circuit. I suggest
starting with a frequency of 32.768 KHz. Millions and millions
of tiny RISC processors are in service running at that speed.
Later you can think about going faster. Many circuits on the web.

Next, build a divider so you can reduce your clock to 1 Hz for
testing purposes - so you can see what's going on.

Then you start putting together your logic gates. You can add
flip-flops for RAM, jumpers for ROM. LEDs for outputs, switches
for inputs, etc.

[ http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ ] shows just such a sistem. With 200
TTL chips, he has something that runs a full a full ANSI C compiler
and serves web pages. You should be able to do he far simpler tasks
that you describe with fewer chips.

Also see:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/05/06/06/1118242.shtml?tid=222&tid=1

 

[Derek Gladding]

Hi,

I am a newby at IC's

It might be fun to write some code and then dump it onto some kind of
chip, maybe hook it up to something... how about some lame lights/leds
or maybe even cooler a small LCD display ??? wieeee =D to display some
text on or maybe even some graphics ?! and maybe some kind of beeper or
other thingy which can produce voice/sound etc. ?

And maybe even some buttons for input.

I don't want to spent a fortune at playing around with all this stuff

What are my options ?

Hi Skybuck (and, delurk and hello to everyone else)

Here's my suggested shopping list, though I'm not sure what "a fortune"
means to you.

Some books you might benefit from reading:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1558603298
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201533766
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521370957

All of these are standard undergraduate-level texts, but I still find them
useful to refer to when doing "real" architecture work.

When you've digested those and are ready to start playing:

http://www.xess.com/prod035.php3

Again, this is simple enough to learn on and big enough to do some very
interesting work with.

However, please note that you don't need an FPGA board to do actual
experiments. There are a number of free simulation and experimentation
tools available. Try looking at:

http://www.icarus.com/eda/verilog/
http://www.systemc.org/
http://www.xilinx.com/ise/logic_design_prod/webpack.htm
http://www.staticfreesoft.com/

They all work at different levels of abstraction, so have a play and
see what level you are most comfortable thinking at.

- Derek

 

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DO NOT CROSS POST TO COMP.ARCH

--

Seek simplicity and mistrust it.
Alfred Whitehead

A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire