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Golf Cart Batteries

B

Bob Adkins

What is everyone's experience with GCB longevity? I suppose I could live
with a 15% drop in capacity if no other problems.

I've heard from 3 to 5 years, but I would expect more, depending on quality
and care and feeding. I'm looking at the $50 GCB's at Sam's Club in
particular.

What's the minimum charge rate for a pair of 225Ah in series? How about 4 in
series-parallel (12v 450Ah)? I assume it would be slightly more than double
for 225Ah.

My usage would be light, probably no more than 25% discharge at most.

Thanks!

Bob

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E

Ecnerwal

Bob Adkins said:
What is everyone's experience with GCB longevity?

As far as I can tell, it all depends on care and feeding, in a big way.
I believe that the guy who was asking about rejuvenating his HydroCaps
said his GC bank was going on 11 years...

I'm still in shopping mode, so no direct experience yet.
 
B

Bughunter

I have about 4 years of abuse on 4 220hr Exide GCB from Sam's Club.
I don't notice any appreciable degradation in them. I'm going out today and
buy
16 more for a new 48v bank. I sure hope they still have the Exide brand.
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Bughunter said:
I have about 4 years of abuse on 4 220hr Exide GCB from Sam's Club.
I don't notice any appreciable degradation in them. I'm going out today and
buy
16 more for a new 48v bank. I sure hope they still have the Exide brand.

I bought a couple of Exides from Napa in the Turks & Caicos for my
weather station there, and they only lasted about 22 months before one
cell shorted. [Graph at
http://compusmiths.com/~w_smith/DailyBatteryVoltage.htm if you care].

On the other hand, they were probably factory seconds, as the serial
numbers were removed, and it hardly seemed worth dealing with, so I
replaced them (with what I could get, which was of course, more of the
same...).

Next year (when the current Napa ones are 2 years old) I'm going to
ship down a couple of Trojan T-105s, but that's a logistical
nightmare. I've got a HydroCaps on the ones there, so we'll see if
that helps....
 
B

Bob Adkins

I have about 4 years of abuse on 4 220hr Exide GCB from Sam's Club.
I don't notice any appreciable degradation in them. I'm going out today and
buy
16 more for a new 48v bank. I sure hope they still have the Exide brand.

You're just full of good stuff BH. Knowing a trusted brand is a good start!

Bob

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B

Bughunter

Bob Adkins said:
You're just full of good stuff BH. Knowing a trusted brand is a good start!

Bob

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You are not the first to tell me I'm full something.

I've been told that Exide is a major battery manufacturer, and often they
are re-branded with other labels. I was actually impressed that a
manufacturer put their name on it. I hope they still carry that brand at
Sam's club, because I'll buy the exact same battery again if they have them.
The last time, they were $49 with a $10 per battery rebate. That was hard to
beat.

When I buy automotive batteries at Wal-mart, I never seem to find the same
brand twice. Why they insist on a rotating series of names, I can't even
guess.

I've been tempted to go with Trojans, but the seem to go for about twice the
price for the same specs. The taller design has some advantages, but it's
hard for me to believe they are twice as good.

If I am going to learn something by this first big bank, I'd rather learn it
on a set of inexpensive batteries. One thing that I did learn about the
golf-cart batteries I bought a few years ago is that are capable of standing
up to the abuse I throw at them. While I try and follow a proper maintenance
regime, in reality is that I am less than fastadious..
 
E

Ecnerwal

William P.N. Smith said:
On the other hand, they were probably factory seconds, as the serial
numbers were removed

Or they "fell off a truck" and onto a boat ....
 
B

Bob Adkins

If I am going to learn something by this first big bank, I'd rather learn it
on a set of inexpensive batteries. One thing that I did learn about the
golf-cart batteries I bought a few years ago is that are capable of standing
up to the abuse I throw at them. While I try and follow a proper maintenance
regime, in reality is that I am less than fastadious..

Welcome to the un-fastidious club. I bet I'm worse than you! :)

I'm long overdue checking my 12V marine batteries. Only thing I do is do a
weekly check on the voltage to .01V, and it's usually right on the money at
13.97. That's easy to do, and usually a sign that nothing has changed. But I
will actually check the electrolyte tomorrow. (Really. I promise.) :)


Bob

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B

Bughunter

Sam's Club (Nashua NH) still had the Exide batteries. The big label on them
says Stowaway. They were $46.97 a piece, but no $10 rebate card this time.
Still not a bad deal. I only picked up 8, because the I didn't want to ruin
the springs on the Explorer. Later this week I'll pick up another 8.
 
B

Brent Geery

What is everyone's experience with GCB longevity? I suppose I could live
with a 15% drop in capacity if no other problems.

I've heard from 3 to 5 years, but I would expect more, depending on quality
and care and feeding. I'm looking at the $50 GCB's at Sam's Club in
particular.

What's the minimum charge rate for a pair of 225Ah in series? How about 4 in
series-parallel (12v 450Ah)? I assume it would be slightly more than double
for 225Ah.

My usage would be light, probably no more than 25% discharge at most.

Thanks!

I got 7 years out of my last set of Trojan T-105's batteries. Early
in their life, they were a bit abused, for about 6 months. Late in
life, I forgot to water them in time, and top of plates were exposed
to air (but still "wet" looking). A cell finally shorted out after 7
years of use. Batteries were probably equalized 4-5 times in the
whole time.

I replaced the set with a new set of T-125's (for a little more
capacity) and am using hydocaps on this set, this time. I expect to
get better life with this new set.
 
B

Bob Adkins

Sam's Club (Nashua NH) still had the Exide batteries. The big label on them
says Stowaway. They were $46.97 a piece, but no $10 rebate card this time.
Still not a bad deal. I only picked up 8, because the I didn't want to ruin
the springs on the Explorer. Later this week I'll pick up another 8.

Man, you will have enough juice there to do an execution!

Would you mind sharing a brief description of your setup, or did I miss it?

Bob

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B

Bob Adkins

8 batteries isn't a whole lot of juice. 800ah more or less? I've setup 24+
systems.

BH just bought 8 GCB's and is going back for 8 more. That's 3520Ah. That's
enough to light a bulb or 2. :)

Bob

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D

daestrom

220 ah / battery? Are these 6volt?

16 12v 220ah batteries would indeed give you 3520 ah total storage, or 1760
ah usable.

16 6v 220ah batteries would give you 1760 ah total storage, or 880 ah
usable.


Well, I don't want to be accused of pulling a 'Nick' here, but that's NQR
(not quite right). You're assuming all the 12v batteries are in parallel
and all the 6v batteries are in 2-series/8-parallel configuration for total
system voltage of 12v.

Sixteen separate 220ah batteries, all wired in parallel at the battery
output voltage (either 12v or 6v) would give you 3520 ah total storage
regardless of the individual battery voltage. (1760 ah if you consider only
50% DoD as 'usable')

If they are 12v batteries, that would be 12v X 3520ah => 42,240 watt-hours
(minus losses of course). If they are 6v batteries, that would give you 6v
X 3520ah => 21,120 watt-hours (1/2 that of the 12v).

A single 6v 220ah battery has exactly the same number of *amp-hours* as a
12v 220ah battery (hence the amp-hour ratings are both 220). That doesn't
change with voltage. How you connect them together will determine the
amp-hours from the 16 units combined.

If you want to connect them for some other voltage than 12v, then the number
of amp-hours will depend on how you connect them. Connecting in
series-parallel combinations for 48v would be 880ah for the 12v units and
440ah for the 6v units. But interestingly, you would always get 42,240
watt-hours for the 12v and 21,120 watt-hours for the 6v (minus losses and
assuming you don't mess up the connections).

The energy storage is a bit more useful than strictly the amp-hours, unless
the nominal voltage is *assumed*. (and we all know what happens when we
*ass-u-me* things ;-)

daestrom
 
B

Bob Adkins

16 12v 220ah batteries would indeed give you 3520 ah total storage, or 1760
ah usable.

16 6v 220ah batteries would give you 1760 ah total storage, or 880 ah
usable.

Oooooops... my bad! <cheeks glowing red>

Bob

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S

Steve Spence

If one wants to use 24volts as the system voltage, then:

16 12v 220ah batteries would indeed give you 1760 ah total storage, or 880
ah usable.

16 6v 220ah batteries would indeed give you 880 ah total storage, or 440 ah
usable.

Again, this is assuming the batteries are really 220ah, which is in
question.

2 6volt batteries at 220ah each in series is still only 220ah. In series
voltage would double, in parallel amps hours double. Watt hours stay the
same in either case.

--
Steve Spence
Renewable energy and sustainable living
http://www.green-trust.org
Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel
powered diesels at
http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/
 
B

Bob Adkins

If one wants to use 24volts as the system voltage, then:

16 12v 220ah batteries would indeed give you 1760 ah total storage, or 880
ah usable.

16 6v 220ah batteries would indeed give you 880 ah total storage, or 440 ah
usable.

Again, this is assuming the batteries are really 220ah, which is in
question.

2 6volt batteries at 220ah each in series is still only 220ah. In series
voltage would double, in parallel amps hours double. Watt hours stay the
same in either case.

Alright already! I said "oops", what do you want? blood? :)

Steve, with all those words you could have at least answered my original
questions. But I forgot what they were.

Bob

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B

Bob S

Hello again,
As far as I can tell, it all depends on care and feeding, in a big way.
I believe that the guy who was asking about rejuvenating his HydroCaps
said his GC bank was going on 11 years...

That would be me. This weekend, I was cleaning them up, and checked
the date stickers. Turns out they are "only" 10 years old (D-4) not 11.

They are all still in great shape. Not a single cell has gone bad. I just
cleaned them up this weekend, and checked voltages of each battery. They
all were within a couple tenths of a volt. I didn't bother to check
specific gravity this time, because I'm too lazy to check 48 cells, and
I had just watered them, but not equalized to mix it up the electrolyte.

I'm not sure if it helped or hurt, but here's what I did:

I have 16 sams club batteries, wired series-parallel for 24 volts (4 x 4).

1: Before hooking them up, I charged them all, let them sit, then
arranged them so that each string was almost exactly the same voltage.
(Cheap batteries can vary by one or two tenths.) This way, there will
be less chance of one string charging the others.

2: They have had hydrocaps on them for most of their life. I just went
back to the original caps this weekend, and plan to look closer at
someone's suggestion of "washing" them. BTW, I opened up one of them,
and the catalyst is a 1 inch high, by 3 inch round thing, about the size of
a stack of 5 or 6 quarters.

3: At the suggestion of a Bob-O (from Home Power Magazine), I kept the
voltage high. 30.0 volts bulk phase charge voltage, but let them settle down
to 26.8 volts during float. I also left the bulk->float switchover
current low (8 amps) so that they stay at bulk for a long time each day.
On a good sunny day, they boil for almost an hour before going into float.
I wanted to give them a mini-equalize every day, reducing sulphates and
mixing up the electrolyte.

4: I built 8 battery pulsers, based on a home brew article in Home
Power magazine. Each pulser is 12 volts, so I have one pulser for every
two batteries. They run 24/7.

5: I have individual ammeters on each string, so that I can see at a glance
if anything is wrong. These are cheap inductive ones that I got for a
couple of bucks each at a surplus/junk store. They slip over the battery
cables. If the coffee maker and microwave are running at the same time,
I like to take a quick look to make sure that each string is providing
roughly the same amount of current. Similarly, I check every now and
then when the sun is in full force to make sure that each string is
taking its share of the energy.

Now that I removed the hydrocaps, I dropped the voltage down by a half
of a volt, and increased switch-over current, so that I won't have to
water them quite as often. Hopefully, the catalyst washing idea will
work, and I can put the hydrocaps back on. However, I can't justify
buying another set for these old batteries. I have no idea how
long they will last, but based on what I've read, they are pretty old.

I'm not sure what I'll do for replacements when the batteries finally
die. From a pure numbers standpoint, cheap golf cart batteries seem
like the way to go. Even if they only last half as long as good ones,
they seem cost effective based on Dollars/(AmpHour*lifespan).

However, I'm also considering the nice 800 aH Rolls/Surrettes. The
thought of only maintaining 1/4 the number of batteries is appealing.
The extra life span would also be nice. I dread the thought of swapping
out the entire set.

Anyway, IMHO, there is nothing wrong with golf cart batteries, if you
don't mind dealing with more cells, and knowing that the life span
will be shorter. Also, they give you a bit of insurance by not costing
as much to replace if you make a mistake.


Bob S.
 
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