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Gold plated contacts in salt water

R

Raveninghorde

Anyone got experience od immersing gold plated contacts in salt water?

I have a spec that requires the connector on our equipment to survive
immersion in 3 foot of salt water.

Is gold plating up to this?

Thanks
 
L

legg

Anyone got experience od immersing gold plated contacts in salt water?

I have a spec that requires the connector on our equipment to survive
immersion in 3 foot of salt water.

Is gold plating up to this?

Thanks

I think they took that requirement out of the new NATO carbine spec.

You get what the committee's willing to pay for.....

RL
 
P

Phil Allison

"Raving Looney"
Anyone got experience od immersing gold plated contacts in salt water?

** Yes, some - but not for long.
I have a spec that requires the connector on our equipment to survive
immersion in 3 foot of salt water.


** Got news for you - pal.

Salt water conducts electricity so nothing electrical can be immersed in it.

Is gold plating up to this?


** FFS the connector needs to be WATERPROOF !!!!!!!



.... Phil
 
M

Martin Riddle

Anyone got experience od immersing gold plated contacts in salt water?

I have a spec that requires the connector on our equipment to survive
immersion in 3 foot of salt water.

Is gold plating up to this?

Thanks

Waterproof connector.
ITT Cannon makes MIL spec connectors.

Cheers
 
R

Raveninghorde

I used to design marine radios in the 1970's and 1980's. I have
plenty of experience doing it wrong.


Yes. As John Larkin mentioned, it's dependent on what manner of
signal you shove through the connections. The assumption with gold is
that you have a "dry" contact, which means no DC. That includes AC
signals sitting on top of a DC voltage. For example, one of my less
brilliant ideas was to combine the +15v power and signals on the
AN/SRD-22 VHF direction finder antenna. There was no immersion test
for antennas, but it barely passed the salt fog and salt spray tests
due to the DC. In order for it to work, we had to use 50 millionths
gold plating. Any less would just disappear. Inside the radio were
the usual (now ancient) 0.156" gold PCB edge connectors. The PCB
connectors did well, but they too had to be 50 millionths gold plated.
It was correctly decided to concentrate on sealing the radio and
antenna, rather than trying to make it corrosion proof. There just
wasn't anything better than gold.

You didn't specify which ASTM or MIL test you were running. In my
never humble opinion, the real problems are how long an immersion
test, and whether it is cyclic (dip-dry-dip-dry-dip-dry-etc). Short
term immersion is probably not a big challenge. Long term and cyclic,
where little things like changes in internal air pressure can pump
salt water into the unit under test, are far more difficult. Salt
crystals can also creep into cracks in the PCB, under paint, inside
devices, and then expand when heated. You may not have a problem
during immersion, but when the device is powered on and the crystals
expand, you may see some very strange problems.

Good luck.


The spec says half the test samples should have exposed connectors

When specified batteries shall be tested as follows.
Weigh batteries and record their weight.
The test samples shall be configured as follows: half in operating
configuration (with sealed mating connector attached) and half in with
dust cap removed. Immerse the batteries to a depth of not less than 3
feet in salt water substitute conforming to ASTM D - 1141 for not less
than 2 hours.
 
M

Martin Brown

The spec says half the test samples should have exposed connectors

When specified batteries shall be tested as follows.
Weigh batteries and record their weight.
The test samples shall be configured as follows: half in operating
configuration (with sealed mating connector attached) and half in with
dust cap removed. Immerse the batteries to a depth of not less than 3
feet in salt water substitute conforming to ASTM D - 1141 for not less
than 2 hours.

All bets are off then since the battery will generate free chlorine at
the anode and gold chloride is moderately soluble once it is formed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold(III)_chloride

Tell them that to meet their specifications only solid platinum
connectors will be good enough (and academic since the batteries are
likely to be ruined after 2 hours aggressive discharge in brine anyway).
 
P

Phil Hobbs

;)

Reminds me of "Snoopy and the Red Baron".

"He challenged the German to a real dog fight/while the Baron was
laughing, he got him in his sights."

_Not_ what you want if you're trying to get guerilla street cred.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA
+1 845 480 2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
G

Glen Walpert

All bets are off then since the battery will generate free chlorine at
the anode and gold chloride is moderately soluble once it is formed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold(III)_chloride

Tell them that to meet their specifications only solid platinum
connectors will be good enough (and academic since the batteries are
likely to be ruined after 2 hours aggressive discharge in brine anyway).

Or use a sealed connector with an internal switch which cannot be closed
without the sealed external connector in place, so there is no power
applied to any pin when the external connector is removed, as is commonly
done on ship shore power connectors for example. These have mechanical
interlocks which prevent the switch being closed without the connector in
place and also prevent the connector being removed without the switch
being open; the same sort of mechanical interlock could automatically
close the switch when the connector was seated if desired. There exist
connector manufacturers with experience in this area, but I have long
forgotten who they are. An electrical interlock is also a possibility,
preferably with power to close the switch provided from the external
connector, allowing the use of standard connectors.
 
S

Syd Rumpo

On 19/07/2013 10:20, Martin Brown wrote:

All bets are off then since the battery will generate free chlorine at
the anode and gold chloride is moderately soluble once it is formed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold(III)_chloride

Tell them that to meet their specifications only solid platinum
connectors will be good enough (and academic since the batteries are
likely to be ruined after 2 hours aggressive discharge in brine anyway).

How about glassy carbon contacts...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glassy_carbon

Cheers
 
R

Robert Baer

Raveninghorde said:
Anyone got experience od immersing gold plated contacts in salt water?

I have a spec that requires the connector on our equipment to survive
immersion in 3 foot of salt water.

Is gold plating up to this?

Thanks
Define "survive"; one could almost use metallic sodium..
 
R

Robert Baer

Jeff said:
I used to design marine radios in the 1970's and 1980's. I have
plenty of experience doing it wrong.


Yes. As John Larkin mentioned, it's dependent on what manner of
signal you shove through the connections. The assumption with gold is
that you have a "dry" contact, which means no DC. That includes AC
signals sitting on top of a DC voltage. For example, one of my less
brilliant ideas was to combine the +15v power and signals on the
AN/SRD-22 VHF direction finder antenna. There was no immersion test
for antennas, but it barely passed the salt fog and salt spray tests
due to the DC. In order for it to work, we had to use 50 millionths
gold plating. Any less would just disappear. Inside the radio were
the usual (now ancient) 0.156" gold PCB edge connectors. The PCB
connectors did well, but they too had to be 50 millionths gold plated.
It was correctly decided to concentrate on sealing the radio and
antenna, rather than trying to make it corrosion proof. There just
wasn't anything better than gold.

You didn't specify which ASTM or MIL test you were running. In my
never humble opinion, the real problems are how long an immersion
test, and whether it is cyclic (dip-dry-dip-dry-dip-dry-etc). Short
term immersion is probably not a big challenge. Long term and cyclic,
where little things like changes in internal air pressure can pump
salt water into the unit under test, are far more difficult. Salt
crystals can also creep into cracks in the PCB, under paint, inside
devices, and then expand when heated. You may not have a problem
during immersion, but when the device is powered on and the crystals
* --- AKA "crystal set"? ---------------------------------------^
 
Jeff Liebermann said:
Some radio sites have pressurized Heliax coax and pressurized tower
top NEMA boxes for TMA's (tower mounted amplifiers).

I've been in the remains of an AT&T microwave relay station. The
fitting that brought the waveguides through the wall and provided the
dry-air connections for them were still there (with a stamped date of
1952), as was the air drier. For some unknown reason, the scrappers had
also left the pressure switches that sent alarms if the air pressure
dropped too much. They were still on the wall in their big round cans
with "MERCOID" stamped into the cover.

The phone company also used to supply small quantities of dry nitrogen
for free from large roadside tanks, but now that they have decided to
let the copper infrastructure rot, I hardly ever see them anymore.
There's nothing better than climbing a tower with a heavy pressure
bottle of dry air to repressurize a leaky enclosure.

Why not leave the bottle at the bottom and climb with a hose? Maybe
the hose is harder to deal with than the bottle, or there's nobody at
the bottom to work the valve...

Matt Roberds
 
R

Raveninghorde

Anyone got experience od immersing gold plated contacts in salt water?

I have a spec that requires the connector on our equipment to survive
immersion in 3 foot of salt water.

Is gold plating up to this?

Thanks

Thanks for the responses.
 
J

Jasen Betts

I've been in the remains of an AT&T microwave relay station. The
fitting that brought the waveguides through the wall and provided the
dry-air connections for them were still there (with a stamped date of
1952), as was the air drier. For some unknown reason, the scrappers had
also left the pressure switches that sent alarms if the air pressure
dropped too much. They were still on the wall in their big round cans
with "MERCOID" stamped into the cover.

The phone company also used to supply small quantities of dry nitrogen
for free from large roadside tanks, but now that they have decided to
let the copper infrastructure rot, I hardly ever see them anymore.


Why not leave the bottle at the bottom and climb with a hose? Maybe
the hose is harder to deal with than the bottle, or there's nobody at
the bottom to work the valve...

Can't use the pressurised heliax as a pipe?
 
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