France Electricity notes

[Erica Stanson]

In France, I've found that light bulbs hanging by their
conductors from the ceiling to be somewhat common in
residences. I'm not talking about hanging from the cable,
but dangling from the individual two circuit conductors. I
don't think the NEC would permit this. Does anyone know if
France's code does?

Is there a color scheme for wires in France? I've noticed
that the conductor wires seem to be many different colors,
including green!

Also does France require ground fault circuit interruptors
in bathrooms and similar wet locations? I never noticed
any in new construction, but didn't inspect the circuit
interruptor panels to see if they were there.

France uses a male ground connector on wall sockets, instead
of female like the mains. Does anyone know why? This has
the effect of making it impossible for an appliance to not
plug into an outlet without the ground connector.

Another item with sockets: there is no plug polarization,
unless the ground connector (pin) is present in the outlet,
and is used. Do switches in lamps and appliances in France
shut off both connectors?

Smoke detectors do not appear to be a requirement either, or
if it is, not too much attention is paid.

 

[Beachcomber]

Another item with sockets: there is no plug polarization,
unless the ground connector (pin) is present in the outlet,
and is used. Do switches in lamps and appliances in France
shut off both connectors?

Smoke detectors do not appear to be a requirement either, or
if it is, not too much attention is paid.

Most of France uses 240 v. 50 Hz with one conductor hot and one
conductor earthed (grounded) for distribution circuits. I don't know
about the codes in France, but having lived there for over a year, I
was not too impressed with the overall safety or quality of many
installations that I observed.

Of course the French might say that everything in the US is overbuilt,
wasteful in expense, and not really needed to make the device work. I
am thinking specifcally here of NEMA standards for motor starters,
switches and circuit breakers that are used in the USA. The
equivalent French device devices are often ridiculously small and (to
my eyes) when you consider proper conductor spacing, perhaps unsafe.

I remember touring in France, the central electrical distribution
transformers for large buildings. This is just ancedotal and may not
represent all installations, but instead of putting the main building
transformer in a locked vault with all sorts of safety features and
large HV bushings for the primary conductors.... The primary cables
were just sort of casually draped through holes in the concrete wall
and laid across the top of the transformers. The transformers
themselves were typically in the corner of a room that might be used
for other purposes with no special protection or security features. I
shuddered to think what their nuclear power installations must look
like, although, in fairness, I never personally had the good fortune
to observe one...

The extension cords I remember purchasing for consumer use were cheap,
thin cables (not much more in thickness than some strands of Christmas
Tree lighting I've seen) with equally cheap connectors. Once again,
it works... but you wonder about the safety issues...

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

In France, I've found that light bulbs hanging by their
conductors from the ceiling to be somewhat common in
residences. I'm not talking about hanging from the cable,
but dangling from the individual two circuit conductors. I
don't think the NEC would permit this. Does anyone know if
France's code does?

The code is likely to cover the building wiring only. The lamps would
fall under the standards for lamps and should have CE marking etc. But[/QUOTE]

In UK, this counts as fixed lighting and is covered by the
building wiring regs. These are the only appliances which are
covered by building wiring regs.

We (UK) are allowed to hang lamps on conductors. There's a table
in the wiring regs which gives the max weight of the lamp verses
the conductor cross-sectional area. Often the ceiling rose and/or
lampholder have cord grips and if fitted, these must be used, but
they aren't required to be present.

There's no polarisation at all with socket outlets in France.
It isn't defined which contact is live and which is neutral,
and in all double outlets and 2-way adaptors I've seen, the
two outlets are hard-wired opposite way round from each other.
The fact that you can't put the plug in either way round is hence
rather irrelvant.

Building wiring in France have double pole breakers to switch off both
the line and the neutral.

France doesn't guarantee you will have a neutral, as in a supply
conductor which is held near earth potential. Both supply conductors
are regarded as live (this also makes polarised outlets meaningless).
Having said that, all the French installations I've seen have had
a neutral at near ground potential, but I presume there are areas
of the country where different supply systems exist.

It seems we Europeans are more laid back when it comes to wiring than
Americans.

UK seems to be the other extreme...

 

[obsidian]

Belgium is similar to France in electrical
matters.

I have come across supply systems of 3 phase wires
and no neutral, the phase to phase voltage being
the required 220 volts (you can calculate that the
phase to "neutral" voltage comes out at 127v).
Consequently distribution boards are quite large
to cater for double-pole circuit breakers since
there is no guaranteed Neutral, unlike in the UK
where only single-pole circuit breakers are used.

As a side note, the general supply voltage in
Europe is in progress of changing to 230v, meaning
UK is dropping down from 240v and the rest of
Europe moving up from 220v.

--
obsidian


"Andrew Gabriel" <[email protected]>
wrote in message

The code is likely to cover the building wiring only. The lamps would
fall under the standards for lamps and should

have CE marking etc. But

In UK, this counts as fixed lighting and is covered by the
building wiring regs. These are the only appliances which are
covered by building wiring regs.

We (UK) are allowed to hang lamps on conductors. There's a table
in the wiring regs which gives the max weight of the lamp verses
the conductor cross-sectional area. Often the ceiling rose and/or
lampholder have cord grips and if fitted, these must be used, but
they aren't required to be present.
in the outlet,

There's no polarisation at all with socket outlets in France.
It isn't defined which contact is live and which is neutral,
and in all double outlets and 2-way adaptors I've seen, the
two outlets are hard-wired opposite way round from each other.
The fact that you can't put the plug in either way round is hence
rather irrelvant.

Building wiring in France have double pole breakers to switch off both
the line and the neutral.

France doesn't guarantee you will have a neutral, as in a supply
conductor which is held near earth potential. Both supply conductors
are regarded as live (this also makes polarised outlets meaningless).
Having said that, all the French installations I've seen have had
a neutral at near ground potential, but I presume there are areas
of the country where different supply systems exist.

It seems we Europeans are more laid back when it comes to wiring than
Americans.

UK seems to be the other extreme...
[/QUOTE]

 

[B J Conner]

In the USA (California to be exact ) I grew up in a house that has similar
lighting. The switch was a grocery store string that ran from the pull
chain sockte to a pull chain socket. Turning on the light meant that it
swung for a while afterwards.

 

[SGT]

I'm a Canadian EE. I did projects in Canada, USA, UK, IR etc...& now working
in France. I find the French building code is the safest. Of course the old
buildings (old = few hundred years sometimes) have to be upgraded "when
renovated" till then you might still find very UNSAFE installations.

A+