Forte Agent newsreader WARNING re deleting email attachments!

[Ross Herbert]

To those usenet people using Forte Agent as their news reader, or for
email, I wonder if you are aware of a really BAD feature....

To illustrate, let me relate the following example of using Agent as a
mail client where files are attached to an email.

I attempted to send an email with attachments but the message was
rejected by the ISP news server (file too big) and sending was
terminated. I went to Outbox where I intended to delete the
attachments from the offending email and then re-attach a smaller
number of files before re-sending. Agent allowed me to delete the
attachments all right, but no warning is given that doing so actually
deletes them from the source folder. Not only are the attached source
files deleted from the computer but they are not even sent to the
Windows Recycle bin from where they can be recovered. They are purged
completely from the hard disk.

I reported this set of circumstances to Forte Agent support and this
is the reply I received;

QUOTE:
If you told Agent to delete saved attachments, then it did so. There
is no distinction between attachments on sent or received messages.

Attachments on outbound messages are not "attached" until actually
sent, and then only on the outbound data stream. By telling Agent to
delete the attachments, you told Agent to delete the source files.

Agent does not, and never did, use the recycle bin.


--
Jeffrey Kaplan Agent Support Team www.forteinc.com
UNQUOTE:

So, if you use Agent as your mail client and wish to protect your
valuable source files, NEVER elect to use the "Delete Attachments"
from a post or email, because that is exactly what it does - DELETES
the source files from the computer with no way of recovery.

I'll stick to using Eudora for email from now on because it doesn't
have fatal features like that in Agent. In Eudora if I wish to delete
an email from either the Out box, either having been already sent or
queued for sending later, then ONLY that email is deleted to the
Eudora Trash bin. Any attachments to that email are left alone in
their source folder and they are not purged from the hard disk. Emails
deleted from the Trash box are sent to the Windows Recycle bin from
where they can be recovered if required.

Ross Herbert

 

[Peter A Forbes]

To those usenet people using Forte Agent as their news reader, or for
email, I wonder if you are aware of a really BAD feature....

Interesting up to a point, but why do anything relating deleting of files in the
newsreader? surely it would have been better to do the mod's or deletions
outside of the programme anyway?

I use Agent, have done since the very early V1.1 or so, but have never had that
problem.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Peter

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Interesting up to a point, but why do anything relating deleting of
files in the newsreader? surely it would have been better to do the
mod's or deletions outside of the programme anyway?

I think it's bad programming. Regardless of where the deletion is done, no
program whose purpose is passing copies of files in a system it knows
nothing about should EVER default to a write or delete capability. These
things should only be possible with a prompt answered manually by the user.
If an override exists, it should require that the user makes some effort to
find it to enable it. In this case the correct practise would be to
defauklt to deleting a LINK to the attached file, NOT the file itself. No
exceptions. If I'm testing a new program and find it presuming to police
any part of the system beyond its own function and place, it's out on its
ear, immediately. I'd rather find something else than deal with something
made by someone who fails to respect unknown host systems.

 

[kreed]

To those usenet people using Forte Agent as their news reader, or for
email, I wonder if you are aware of a really BAD feature....

To illustrate, let me relate the following example of using Agent as a
mail client where files are attached to an email.

I attempted to send an email with attachments but the message was
rejected by the ISP news server (file too big) and sending was
terminated. I went to Outbox where I intended to delete the
attachments from the offending email and then re-attach a smaller
number of files before re-sending. Agent allowed me to delete the
attachments all right, but no warning is given that doing so actually
deletes them from the source folder. Not only are the attached source
files deleted from the computer but they are not even sent to the
Windows Recycle bin from where they can be recovered. They are purged
completely from the hard disk.

I reported this set of circumstances to Forte Agent support and this
is the reply I received;

QUOTE:
If you told Agent to delete saved attachments, then it did so. There
is no distinction between attachments on sent or received messages.

Attachments on outbound messages are not "attached" until actually
sent, and then only on the outbound data stream. By telling Agent to
delete the attachments, you told Agent to delete the source files.

Agent does not, and never did, use the recycle bin.


--
Jeffrey Kaplan Agent Support Team www.forteinc.com
UNQUOTE:

So, if you use Agent as your mail client and wish to protect your
valuable source files, NEVER elect to use the "Delete Attachments"
from a post or email, because that is exactly what it does - DELETES
the source files from the computer with no way of recovery.

I'll stick to using Eudora for email from now on because it doesn't
have fatal features like that in Agent. In Eudora if I wish to delete
an email from either the Out box, either having been already sent or
queued for sending later, then ONLY that email is deleted to the
Eudora Trash bin. Any attachments to that email are left alone in
their source folder and they are not purged from the hard disk. Emails
deleted from the Trash box are sent to the Windows Recycle bin from
where they can be recovered if required.

Ross Herbert

------------------

Another bad feature of this program (agent) is that it does keep
deleted (even deleted through the "trash" feature") messages, incoming
emails etc in its database - even ones that are 2-3 years old, maybe
more. These can be recovered using forensic programs.

This INCLUDES attatchments - so the good news is that if you have lost
any, you can probably get them back.

This could cause extreme future problems with confidential business or
commercial information etc. Using the "compact database" feature is
supposed to clear this up, but I cant guarantee that it will

Its quite possible that all (non web based) email programs do this, so
be warned.

 

[Sniper .308]

Proof of stupid lying faggot Capgun's shit fetish:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.flame.faggots/browse_thread/thread/be1f372eb33c5f08

lil red faggot is desperate to show the world he is a lying fucking
retard

 

[Ross Herbert]

Interesting up to a point, but why do anything relating deleting of files in the
newsreader? surely it would have been better to do the mod's or deletions
outside of the programme anyway?

Well since you asked... there was an option in the menu which allowed
deleting attachments on the email which had been terminated due to
size restrictions. To save typing the message again I kept that part
and deleted the attachments so that I could re-arrange the attachment
package. My thought logic was that I was simply deleting the path to
the source files, not the files themselves.

And why would any sane person imagine that such an option meant that
any attachments would be completely purged from the computer? All
"GOOD" programs would simply delete the path to the attachments for
that email, not the source files themselves, or at least shift them to
the Windows Recycle bin. As I said, Eudora doesn't do what Agent does,
and I'm sure that most other email clients don't either.

I use Agent, have done since the very early V1.1 or so, but have
never had that problem.

I use Agent ONLY for newsgroups since I discovered the "feature".

 

[Ross Herbert]

:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:> To those usenet people using Forte Agent as their news reader, or for
:> email, I wonder if you are aware of a really BAD feature....
:>
:> To illustrate, let me relate the following example of using Agent as a
:> mail client where files are attached to an email.
:>
:> I attempted to send an email with attachments but the message was
:> rejected by the ISP news server (file too big) and sending was
:> terminated. I went to Outbox where I intended to delete the
:> attachments from the offending email and then re-attach a smaller
:> number of files before re-sending. Agent allowed me to delete the
:> attachments all right, but no warning is given that doing so actually
:> deletes them from the source folder. Not only are the attached source
:> files deleted from the computer but they are not even sent to the
:> Windows Recycle bin from where they can be recovered. They are purged
:> completely from the hard disk.
:>
:> I reported this set of circumstances to Forte Agent support and this
:> is the reply I received;
:>
:> QUOTE:
:> If you told Agent to delete saved attachments, then it did so. There
:> is no distinction between attachments on sent or received messages.
:>
:> Attachments on outbound messages are not "attached" until actually
:> sent, and then only on the outbound data stream. By telling Agent to
:> delete the attachments, you told Agent to delete the source files.
:>
:> Agent does not, and never did, use the recycle bin.
:>
:>
:> --
:> Jeffrey Kaplan Agent Support Team www.forteinc.com
:> UNQUOTE:
:>
:> So, if you use Agent as your mail client and wish to protect your
:> valuable source files, NEVER elect to use the "Delete Attachments"
:> from a post or email, because that is exactly what it does - DELETES
:> the source files from the computer with no way of recovery.
:>
:> I'll stick to using Eudora for email from now on because it doesn't
:> have fatal features like that in Agent. In Eudora if I wish to delete
:> an email from either the Out box, either having been already sent or
:> queued for sending later, then ONLY that email is deleted to the
:> Eudora Trash bin. Any attachments to that email are left alone in
:> their source folder and they are not purged from the hard disk. Emails
:> deleted from the Trash box are sent to the Windows Recycle bin from
:> where they can be recovered if required.
:>
:> Ross Herbert
:------------------
:
:Another bad feature of this program (agent) is that it does keep
:deleted (even deleted through the "trash" feature") messages, incoming
:emails etc in its database - even ones that are 2-3 years old, maybe
:more. These can be recovered using forensic programs.

Under Tools/Options/Navigation & menus/Confirmations you can elect to delete
messages PERMANENTLY. I assume that this means that it will simply mark them as
deleted on the hard disk and they won't appear in any file management utility
such as Windows Explorer. However, they will still exist on the hard disk until
overwritten.

:
:This INCLUDES attatchments - so the good news is that if you have lost
:any, you can probably get them back.

Yes, you can, provided that you haven't overwritten them with some new data. As
soon as I realised that my source files were missing I used a freeware program
called restoration.exe to recover the deleted files.

:
:This could cause extreme future problems with confidential business or
:commercial information etc. Using the "compact database" feature is
:supposed to clear this up, but I cant guarantee that it will
:
:Its quite possible that all (non web based) email programs do this, so
:be warned.
:

Agree entirely.

 

[Prepair Ltd]

Well since you asked... there was an option in the menu which allowed
deleting attachments on the email which had been terminated due to
size restrictions. To save typing the message again I kept that part
and deleted the attachments so that I could re-arrange the attachment
package. My thought logic was that I was simply deleting the path to
the source files, not the files themselves.

And why would any sane person imagine that such an option meant that
any attachments would be completely purged from the computer? All
"GOOD" programs would simply delete the path to the attachments for
that email, not the source files themselves, or at least shift them to
the Windows Recycle bin. As I said, Eudora doesn't do what Agent does,
and I'm sure that most other email clients don't either.


I use Agent ONLY for newsgroups since I discovered the "feature".

Yes, I can see what you did, and understand that you may have been 'misled' by
the general feel of the programme, but, as in most things computer, I try not to
drop myself in the claggy stuff by thinking what the messages mean first.

I've been caught as well, but not by that one.

Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
[email protected]
http://www.prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.eu