Florida Power & Light peak demand control boxes

[Nancy Torres]

".....
(florida power and light) has a program where they attach control boxes
to a customers appliances so they can 'brown them out' in times of peak
demand for a brief period. The customer gets a discount on their bill
for allowing this. These control boxes are sent commands over the power
lines. ...and ...use a 154 MHz range
control receiver with a loop antenna in the PVC box......"

the above is from a post some years ago, describing the program FPL runs
in S. Florida (and perhaps the rest of the state)

my question is this, if I switch off the FPL grid and go on generator power,
will the control box kill my generator feed for the pool pump, water heater and
air conditioner? my generator covers the entire house, not just some part of it.

I've asked FPL and I've asked their contractor who does the install and they don't
know!

 

[Arnold Walker]

".....
(florida power and light) has a program where they attach control boxes
to a customers appliances so they can 'brown them out' in times of peak
demand for a brief period. The customer gets a discount on their bill
for allowing this. These control boxes are sent commands over the power
lines. ...and ...use a 154 MHz range
control receiver with a loop antenna in the PVC box......"

the above is from a post some years ago, describing the program FPL runs
in S. Florida (and perhaps the rest of the state)

my question is this, if I switch off the FPL grid and go on generator
power,
will the control box kill my generator feed for the pool pump, water
heater and
air conditioner? my generator covers the entire house, not just some part
of it.

I've asked FPL and I've asked their contractor who does the install and
they don't know!

Since the appliances are recieving a RF signal over the wire.
The interlock for the generator will kill that signal.Unless ,of course, you
are generating that signal yourself at the generator.
TXU and numerous other utilities have used a sub carrier over light lines
for decades.
Can remember some home doing that as well with intercoms.You plug one unit
in a wall here and the other in a wall there.
And the home wiring carrys the rf signal.Light companies did it to reduce
phone bills on interoffice/shop calls.In later years
they added a call forwarding version of the 1-800- number....You call the
light company about lightening strike that had a transformer
leaping off a pole.And the central office picksup hundreds of miles away on
the service call..Unknow to you is that 90% of the wire
the phone call ran over was powerline as a sub carrier.They also do that
with data as well....as among other things your control boxes will
confirm.Meters are another of the growing data over powerline uses.It isn't
just company computers talking to each other on an ethernet sub carrier
anymore.

 

[Nancy Torres]

Since the appliances are recieving a RF signal over the wire.
The interlock for the generator will kill that signal.Unless ,of course, you
are generating that signal yourself at the generator.

allow me to confirm, as I did not understand all of your reply.

I have no idea what an "interlock for the generator" means? or how I would be
signaling such myself.

my generator startup requires me to transfer off the FPL Main at which point the gen
can be started and it runs my multi-stage heat pump on stage1 (cooling like an AC), as
well as the rest of my house.

since the signaling devices are still attached to the AC, water heater and pool pump,
how are these devices "aware" that I have come off FPL Main ?

 

[[email protected]]

All rf signals have a propagation limitation of the inverse cube of the
distance.

Oh?

Nick

 

[You]

All rf signals have a propagation limitation of the inverse cube of the
distance.

Obviously, you never heard of the "Inverse Square Law" for RF
Propagation........

 

[danny burstein]

The radio signal is sent over the air and not over the wire which is not possible at
that frequency.

I don't know the specifics of the FPL setup, and you're
absolutely right that they can't send a 150 mhz signal
from their generator the 50 miles (back of
envelope, semi-made up figure) from their control
center to the home, but...

.... if they've got fiber SCADA to the local transformers
they could (at least technically) send it the hundreds
or even some thousand of feet.

That's part of the concept behind the vairious
power companies trying to play with BPL (Broadcast
over Power Lines - internet and phone service over
your utiity power cable).

 

[Bob \Buy From Me\ Blakeley]

Since the appliances are recieving a RF signal over the wire.
The interlock for the generator will kill that signal.Unless ,of course, you
are generating that signal yourself at the generator.
TXU and numerous other utilities have used a sub carrier over light lines
for decades.
Can remember some home doing that as well with intercoms.You plug one unit
in a wall here and the other in a wall there.
And the home wiring carrys the rf signal.Light companies did it to reduce
phone bills on interoffice/shop calls.In later years
they added a call forwarding version of the 1-800- number....You call the
light company about lightening strike that had a transformer
leaping off a pole.And the central office picksup hundreds of miles away on
the service call..Unknow to you is that 90% of the wire
the phone call ran over was powerline as a sub carrier.They also do that
with data as well....as among other things your control boxes will
confirm.Meters are another of the growing data over powerline uses.It isn't
just company computers talking to each other on an ethernet sub carrier
anymore.

Then why isn't the lady next door who is getting free nat gas to heat
her house, pool and cooking getting caught? The meter's running.

 

[Morris Dovey]

Jim wrote:
| ||
||| All rf signals have a propagation limitation of the inverse
||| cube of the
||| distance.
||
|| Oh?
||
|| Nick
||
| That's the way I remember it. Have I blown it again? I don't
| see how it can be any other way...... BTW, I have held an FCC
| license since 1988.

Sorry, but you really did. Review time.

(WB0YEF since 1975)

The signal/field strength varies with inverse square of the distance,
and the only limits on propagation is the sensitivity of the receiver
and the ability to pull a signal out of the background noise. Keeps
astronomers is business...

 

[You]

I must have heard of it and misremembered it. I have been dealing with
it for 19 years coming up on the 13th..... I thought it was the cube.
You live and learn; or you don't live long.

Yea well, I can understand that situation...also No Power company is
using VHF to do RF over Powerline Transmissions as it wouldn't propigate
down the Line very far in the First Place, and in the Second Place,
this type of RF Transmission "Carrier Current" has been around for YEARS,
as when I was a very young Lad, I was Chief Engineer, for a Student
Radio Station at my College, that used Carrier Current Transmission to
all the Dorms. Typically Carrier Current Transmissions are LF/MF/HF
Frequency Transmissions. There recent incarnation is IP over PowerLines
and that uses a LOT of the spectrum and ius supposed to be a Part 15
Operation, but the OEMs Cheat a whole LOT, when the set that up.

have held a 2st Class RadioTelegraph Ticket since I was 18, and a
1st Class RadioTelegraph with Radar and Aircraft Endorsement since
I was 23. Now I am just OLD and Fat....

 

[NotMe]

| In article <[email protected]>,
|
| > | > > In article <[email protected]>,
| > >
| > >> All rf signals have a propagation limitation of the inverse cube of
the
| > >> distance.
| > >
| > > Obviously, you never heard of the "Inverse Square Law" for RF
| > > Propagation........
| >
| > I must have heard of it and misremembered it. I have been dealing
with
| > it for 19 years coming up on the 13th..... I thought it was the cube.
| > You live and learn; or you don't live long.
| >
| >
|
| Yea well, I can understand that situation...also No Power company is
| using VHF to do RF over Powerline Transmissions as it wouldn't propigate
| down the Line very far in the First Place, and in the Second Place,
| this type of RF Transmission "Carrier Current" has been around for YEARS,
| as when I was a very young Lad, I was Chief Engineer, for a Student
| Radio Station at my College, that used Carrier Current Transmission to
| all the Dorms. Typically Carrier Current Transmissions are LF/MF/HF
| Frequency Transmissions. There recent incarnation is IP over PowerLines
| and that uses a LOT of the spectrum and ius supposed to be a Part 15
| Operation, but the OEMs Cheat a whole LOT, when the set that up.
|
| have held a 2st Class RadioTelegraph Ticket since I was 18, and a
| 1st Class RadioTelegraph with Radar and Aircraft Endorsement since
| I was 23. Now I am just OLD and Fat....

Given that most power lines have fiber in the core the power company could
but I have no idea if the would.