FCC 15, home or office use.

[Genome]

I have read the manual for my device and the FCC 15 statement says something
like.

If the device interferes with something else then I should re-orientate or
re-position the something else. If something else interferes with the device
then I should re-orientate or re-position the device.

So, I was thinking about building this powerful electronic aeroplane messing
about with thing and installing it in something like a Winnebago and driving
about airport perimeters. Obviously I'd have to stick some big letters on
the side saying FCC 15 compliant and add some small print and have an
instruction manual.

So, if aeroplanes start falling out of the sky, I can point to the relevant
section and suggest that they sort of fly them elsewhere or in different
directions. Of course, if the aeroplanes start dropping too close I can
drive my home/office down the road a bit.

As a result I am fully compliant.

Does anyone have a design for an aeroplane killing mouse?

DNA

 

[Phil Hobbs]

I have read the manual for my device and the FCC 15 statement says something
like.

If the device interferes with something else then I should re-orientate or
re-position the something else. If something else interferes with the device
then I should re-orientate or re-position the device.

So, I was thinking about building this powerful electronic aeroplane messing
about with thing and installing it in something like a Winnebago and driving
about airport perimeters. Obviously I'd have to stick some big letters on
the side saying FCC 15 compliant and add some small print and have an
instruction manual.

So, if aeroplanes start falling out of the sky, I can point to the relevant
section and suggest that they sort of fly them elsewhere or in different
directions. Of course, if the aeroplanes start dropping too close I can
drive my home/office down the road a bit.

As a result I am fully compliant.

Does anyone have a design for an aeroplane killing mouse?

DNA

IIRC, Part 15 says that you're not allowed to interfere with anybody,
and anybody is allowed to interfere with you.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

 

[Tim Wescott]

IIRC, Part 15 says that you're not allowed to interfere with anybody,
and anybody is allowed to interfere with you.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

But then, Part 15 is part of US regulations -- while I'm sure the UK has
something similar, I bet it isn't 'FCC part 15'.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[PeteS]

But then, Part 15 is part of US regulations -- while I'm sure the UK has
something similar, I bet it isn't 'FCC part 15'.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

We have EN55022 (which has A and B), sometimes known (even in the
states) as 'Harmonised emissions standards' for most equipment. There
are others if you have communications equipment (R&TTE directives for
example)

Basically says the same thing for part B (emissions levels are
identical to Part 15) and as Phil says 'you can't interfere with them,
they can interfere with you and you mustn't do anything untoward
because of it'

Cheers

PeteS

 

[Jim Thompson]

IIRC, Part 15 says that you're not allowed to interfere with anybody,
and anybody is allowed to interfere with you.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

That is correct.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Richard Henry]

I have read the manual for my device and the FCC 15 statement says something
like.

If the device interferes with something else then I should re-orientate or
re-position the something else. If something else interferes with the device
then I should re-orientate or re-position the device.

So, I was thinking about building this powerful electronic aeroplane messing
about with thing and installing it in something like a Winnebago and driving
about airport perimeters. Obviously I'd have to stick some big letters on
the side saying FCC 15 compliant and add some small print and have an
instruction manual.

So, if aeroplanes start falling out of the sky, I can point to the relevant
section and suggest that they sort of fly them elsewhere or in different
directions. Of course, if the aeroplanes start dropping too close I can
drive my home/office down the road a bit.

As a result I am fully compliant.

Does anyone have a design for an aeroplane killing mouse?

I remember the days I used to live a few houses down from a HAM with a
tall antenna on his roof and a habit for transmitting SSB worldwide in
the evenings. When I toild him I could hear his transmissions through
my LP turntable, he told me that since his transmitter was licensed by
the FCC and my turntable wasn't that it was not his problem.

 

[Genome]

IIRC, Part 15 says that you're not allowed to interfere with anybody, and
anybody is allowed to interfere with you.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

Well, that makes sense to me but the manual says like what I said. Does that
mean they got it wrong? Actually the manual used to say that but now this
stuff doesn't come with a manual (I suppose that's a cost saving thing) but
it has a sticker on it that says it has been tested to be so so that must be
OK as well.

I suppose it's like 'tuning' a TV aerial back in the good old days.

Anyway, isn't your last statement open to all sorts of seriously wide and
deep political interpretation?

BONUS!!

DNA

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

I have read the manual for my device and the FCC 15 statement says something
like.

If the device interferes with something else then I should re-orientate or
re-position the something else. If something else interferes with the device
then I should re-orientate or re-position the device.

So, I was thinking about building this powerful electronic aeroplane messing
about with thing and installing it in something like a Winnebago and driving
about airport perimeters. Obviously I'd have to stick some big letters on
the side saying FCC 15 compliant and add some small print and have an
instruction manual.

So, if aeroplanes start falling out of the sky, I can point to the relevant
section and suggest that they sort of fly them elsewhere or in different
directions. Of course, if the aeroplanes start dropping too close I can
drive my home/office down the road a bit.

As a result I am fully compliant.

Does anyone have a design for an aeroplane killing mouse?

DNA

Are you planning on driving that Winnebago to the US?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael Black]

IIRC, Part 15 says that you're not allowed to interfere with anybody,
and anybody is allowed to interfere with you.

Of course, it says more than that, in that power levels are specified,
antenna limits are specified, and frequency range for actually transmitting
(as opposed to incidental radiation from a non-transmitter which obviously
can't be limited by frequency) is specified.

So there are limits to begin with in how much interference can be caused,
followed by the bit about how it's your responsibility if you interfere.

And of course, Part 15 is only applicable to the US, though other countries
must follow similar rules; either that or there may be plenty of things
being used that shouldn't in non-US countries.

Michael

 

[Michael Black]

I remember the days I used to live a few houses down from a HAM with a
tall antenna on his roof and a habit for transmitting SSB worldwide in
the evenings. When I toild him I could hear his transmissions through
my LP turntable, he told me that since his transmitter was licensed by
the FCC and my turntable wasn't that it was not his problem.

If it was DESIGNed properly, then no it wasn't his fault. Merely
transmitting is not a crime, at least not if one is licensed. The problem
derived from his being close to you, not because he was putting out a bad
signal. This is actually a pretty common occurrence, because the first
stage of a piece of audio equipment can be overloaded by a strong
signal, and it starts rectifying the radio signal. Properly bypassing
the input of that stage fixes the problem (the lack of which may be
bad DESIGN), or of course the transmitting station can go off the air.
But since he is licensed, and the issue is the phono preamp, he has
no requirement to go off the air.

Michael

 

[John Woodgate]

Well, that makes sense to me but the manual says like what I said. Does
that mean they got it wrong? Actually the manual used to say that but
now this stuff doesn't come with a manual (I suppose that's a cost
saving thing) but it has a sticker on it that says it has been tested
to be so so that must be OK as well.

I suppose it's like 'tuning' a TV aerial back in the good old days.

Anyway, isn't your last statement open to all sorts of seriously wide
and deep political interpretation?

Since you are being serious for once, I'll point out that however FCC
Part 15 is interpreted, the situation in Europe is different. It is true
that your equipment is not allowed to interfere with other equipment,
but there are two more provisions:

1. Your equipment must not be unduly sensitive to emissions that can be
expected in the environment in which it is intended (by the
manufacturer)[1] to operate.

2. If 1. is true, that 'other equipment' is also not allowed to
interfere with yours.

[1] 'by the manufacturer' is only fair, because you could operate the
equipment somewhere that the manufacturer never expected, such as in a
power station or a mine.

 

[Tim Wescott]

I remember the days I used to live a few houses down from a HAM with a
tall antenna on his roof and a habit for transmitting SSB worldwide in
the evenings. When I toild him I could hear his transmissions through
my LP turntable, he told me that since his transmitter was licensed by
the FCC and my turntable wasn't that it was not his problem.

He was right and wrong.

Amateur radio transmitters aren't licensed by the FCC. Rather, the
amateur operator is assumed to know his stuff, and is required to insure
that his transmissions follow the rules. The rules are worded this way
to distinguish the amateur operator (who can build his own stuff if he
wants) from the Citizen's Band or Family Radio band operator (who can
only buy certified equipment, and gets slapped if he modifies it).

If, indeed, his transmissions are up to snuff then indeed you are out of
luck. It's considered Very Good Form for the operator in question to
help his neighbors out with this sort of problem, but that is etiquette,
not law.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Genome]

Of course, it says more than that, in that power levels are specified,
antenna limits are specified, and frequency range for actually
transmitting
(as opposed to incidental radiation from a non-transmitter which obviously
can't be limited by frequency) is specified.

So there are limits to begin with in how much interference can be caused,
followed by the bit about how it's your responsibility if you interfere.

And of course, Part 15 is only applicable to the US, though other
countries
must follow similar rules; either that or there may be plenty of things
being used that shouldn't in non-US countries.

Michael

Assuming you are an American.........

That's a bit pretentious.

DNA

 

[Richard Henry]

If it was DESIGNed properly, then no it wasn't his fault. Merely
transmitting is not a crime, at least not if one is licensed. The problem
derived from his being close to you, not because he was putting out a bad
signal. This is actually a pretty common occurrence, because the first
stage of a piece of audio equipment can be overloaded by a strong
signal, and it starts rectifying the radio signal. Properly bypassing
the input of that stage fixes the problem (the lack of which may be
bad DESIGN), or of course the transmitting station can go off the air.
But since he is licensed, and the issue is the phono preamp, he has
no requirement to go off the air.

In my new neighborhood, visible antennas larger than a Direct-TV dish
are banned by zoning and CCRs. And I no longer listen to LPs, so no
problem.

 

[Genome]

Are you planning on driving that Winnebago to the US?

Are you saying they have a model that drives on water?

I mean, like, I overcame that personal problem a while back but driving on
water might be quite useful. Of course I'd like to avoid the three way
import, export liscensing type problems so I can get hold of a couple of
extra twits for my mouse.

Or maybe I should put in a request to have my Winnebago pimped. Then it can
all be sorted Stateside.

DNA

 

[RST Engineering \(jw\)]

In my new neighborhood, visible antennas larger than a Direct-TV dish
are banned by zoning and CCRs. And I no longer listen to LPs, so no
problem.

Sorry, Federal law trumps local law. It was passed what, six or seven years
ago now? No local municipality can restrict a legally licensed person or
station from erecting an antenna. Building codes for such things as tower
guy wire strength, footings, and all that "safety and building standards"
exempted from the law.


By the way, does anybody in this frikkin group know how to snip?

Jim

 

[John Woodgate]

Are you planning on driving that Winnebago to the US?

DRIVE it?! Over here, Winnebagos are for parking in front of the house
and polishing. They are too big to fit on British roads. So are Humvees.

 

[Genome]

Well, that makes sense to me but the manual says like what I said. Does
that mean they got it wrong? Actually the manual used to say that but now
this stuff doesn't come with a manual (I suppose that's a cost saving
thing) but it has a sticker on it that says it has been tested to be so so
that must be OK as well.

I suppose it's like 'tuning' a TV aerial back in the good old days.

Anyway, isn't your last statement open to all sorts of seriously wide and
deep political interpretation?

Since you are being serious for once, I'll point out that however FCC Part
15 is interpreted, the situation in Europe is different. It is true that
your equipment is not allowed to interfere with other equipment, but there
are two more provisions:

1. Your equipment must not be unduly sensitive to emissions that can be
expected in the environment in which it is intended (by the
manufacturer)[1] to operate.

2. If 1. is true, that 'other equipment' is also not allowed to interfere
with yours.

[1] 'by the manufacturer' is only fair, because you could operate the
equipment somewhere that the manufacturer never expected, such as in a
power station or a mine.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely.

John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

Well, there you go.....

If I read that right then you are asking for 'best practice', without
responsibility (and a cut of the profits as an expert witness).

DNA

 

[John Woodgate]

By the way, does anybody in this frikkin group know how to

[snip]

Yes. But too few.

 

[Tim Wescott]

Sorry, Federal law trumps local law. It was passed what, six or seven years
ago now? No local municipality can restrict a legally licensed person or
station from erecting an antenna. Building codes for such things as tower
guy wire strength, footings, and all that "safety and building standards"
exempted from the law.

But private contracts, such as restrictive covenants, aren't.

By the way, does anybody in this frikkin group know how to snip?

Yes, but apparently your threshold of pain is much lower than mine.

Are you on a slow dial-up or something?

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html