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error in simulate bug zapper on ltspice

F

Felipe Paulo

Em quarta-feira, 30 de outubro de 2013 00h05min44s UTC-2, Sylvia Else escreveu:
Can't you just post the asc file here? It's text after all. I've no wish

to download and run some random exe from some unknown web site.



Sylvia.
Click to expand...

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE 272 -96 -80 -96
WIRE -80 -64 -80 -96
WIRE -80 -64 -272 -64
WIRE 320 -64 80 -64
WIRE 560 -64 416 -64
WIRE 608 -64 560 -64
WIRE 672 -64 656 -64
WIRE 736 -64 672 -64
WIRE 816 -64 736 -64
WIRE 320 -32 320 -64
WIRE 736 -32 736 -64
WIRE -80 32 -80 -64
WIRE 80 32 80 -64
WIRE 416 64 416 -64
WIRE 816 64 816 -64
WIRE 272 80 272 -96
WIRE 272 80 224 80
WIRE 320 80 320 48
WIRE 320 80 272 80
WIRE 560 80 560 -64
WIRE -272 96 -272 -64
WIRE 736 96 736 32
WIRE 736 96 672 96
WIRE 80 128 80 112
WIRE 160 128 80 128
WIRE -80 160 -80 112
WIRE 736 176 736 96
WIRE 224 192 224 176
WIRE 320 192 224 192
WIRE 416 224 416 144
WIRE 672 224 672 96
WIRE 672 224 416 224
WIRE -272 304 -272 176
WIRE -80 304 -80 224
WIRE -80 304 -272 304
WIRE 96 304 -80 304
WIRE 320 304 320 272
WIRE 320 304 96 304
WIRE 352 304 352 -48
WIRE 384 304 384 -48
WIRE 416 304 416 224
WIRE 480 304 416 304
WIRE 560 304 560 144
WIRE 560 304 544 304
WIRE 608 304 560 304
WIRE 736 304 736 240
WIRE 736 304 672 304
WIRE 816 304 816 128
WIRE 816 304 736 304
WIRE 96 352 96 304
FLAG 96 352 0
SYMBOL res -96 16 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1K
SYMBOL LED -96 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value NSCW100
SYMBOL npn 160 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2N2222
SYMBOL res 64 16 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 1K
SYMBOL ind2 304 -48 R0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 10µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL ind2 336 176 M0
SYMATTR InstName L2
SYMATTR Value 2µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL ind2 432 160 R180
WINDOW 0 -34 79 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -60 44 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L3
SYMATTR Value 360µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL diode 480 320 R270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 608 320 R270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 672 -80 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL cap 544 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 220p
SYMBOL cap 720 -32 R0
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 220p
SYMBOL cap 720 176 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 220p
SYMBOL cap 800 64 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 22n
SYMBOL voltage -272 80 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
TEXT 184 480 Left 2 !K1 L1 L2 L3 0.5
TEXT -306 500 Left 2 !.tran 0 2 0
 
F

Felipe Paulo

Em quarta-feira, 30 de outubro de 2013 00h05min44s UTC-2, Sylvia Else escreveu:
Can't you just post the asc file here? It's text after all. I've no wish

to download and run some random exe from some unknown web site.



Sylvia.
Click to expand...



Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE 272 -96 -80 -96
WIRE -80 -64 -80 -96
WIRE -80 -64 -272 -64
WIRE 320 -64 80 -64
WIRE 560 -64 416 -64
WIRE 608 -64 560 -64
WIRE 672 -64 656 -64
WIRE 736 -64 672 -64
WIRE 816 -64 736 -64
WIRE 320 -32 320 -64
WIRE 736 -32 736 -64
WIRE -80 32 -80 -64
WIRE 80 32 80 -64
WIRE 416 64 416 -64
WIRE 816 64 816 -64
WIRE 272 80 272 -96
WIRE 272 80 224 80
WIRE 320 80 320 48
WIRE 320 80 272 80
WIRE 560 80 560 -64
WIRE -272 96 -272 -64
WIRE 736 96 736 32
WIRE 736 96 672 96
WIRE 80 128 80 112
WIRE 160 128 80 128
WIRE -80 160 -80 112
WIRE 736 176 736 96
WIRE 224 192 224 176
WIRE 320 192 224 192
WIRE 416 224 416 144
WIRE 672 224 672 96
WIRE 672 224 416 224
WIRE -272 304 -272 176
WIRE -80 304 -80 224
WIRE -80 304 -272 304
WIRE 96 304 -80 304
WIRE 320 304 320 272
WIRE 320 304 96 304
WIRE 352 304 352 -48
WIRE 384 304 384 -48
WIRE 416 304 416 224
WIRE 480 304 416 304
WIRE 560 304 560 144
WIRE 560 304 544 304
WIRE 608 304 560 304
WIRE 736 304 736 240
WIRE 736 304 672 304
WIRE 816 304 816 128
WIRE 816 304 736 304
WIRE 96 352 96 304
FLAG 96 352 0
SYMBOL res -96 16 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1K
SYMBOL LED -96 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value NSCW100
SYMBOL npn 160 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2N2222
SYMBOL res 64 16 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 1K
SYMBOL ind2 304 -48 R0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 10µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL ind2 336 176 M0
SYMATTR InstName L2
SYMATTR Value 2µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL ind2 432 160 R180
WINDOW 0 -34 79 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -60 44 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L3
SYMATTR Value 360µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL diode 480 320 R270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 608 320 R270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 672 -80 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL cap 544 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 220p
SYMBOL cap 720 -32 R0
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 220p
SYMBOL cap 720 176 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 220p
SYMBOL cap 800 64 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 22n
SYMBOL voltage -272 80 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
TEXT 184 480 Left 2 !K1 L1 L2 L3 0.5
TEXT -306 500 Left 2 !.tran 0 2 0
 
B

[email protected]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:58:18 PM UTC-4, Felipe Paulo wrote:
Once you fix the inductor saturation ( based on the Vusec product of the inductor family you will be using) be sure and put a GND somewhere in that secondary or else SPICE will not be able to construct the equations for the simulation, it makes no difference that a GND will not be in the actual final physical implementation.
 
R

Robert Baer

Sylvia said:
Can't you just post the asc file here? It's text after all. I've no wish
to download and run some random exe from some unknown web site.

Sylvia.
Click to expand...
Sylvia, didn't you know it is a BUG zapper, meaning a PC-zapping BUG.
 
S

Sylvia Else

Em quarta-feira, 30 de outubro de 2013 00h05min44s UTC-2, Sylvia Else escreveu:
Click to expand...

Spice seems to get confused sometimes when nodes are floating, but
doesn't always say so.

If you indicate a ground for one side of C4, then the other side's
voltage reaches +/- 80V by 40 ms.

Sylvia.
 
S

Sylvia Else

Floating nodes are always an annoyance, so I've created tiny PSpice
symbols that I can plunk onto schematics without taking up significant
room... connects a resistor of value {1/gmin} from the offending node
to 0 (zero) the universal ground.
Click to expand...

I find it odd that Spice (I'm using LTSpice) can sometimes flag floating
nodes, but doesn't always do so. It's hard to see how it can even arrive
at a place to start from, yet it seems, sometimes, willing to attempt to
do the calculation regardless.

Sylvia.
 
S

Sylvia Else

Can't you just post the asc file here? It's text after all. I've no wish
to download and run some random exe from some unknown web site.

Sylvia.
Click to expand...

A bit of research suggests that my concern was well founded. Not a true
damaging virus, but spamware plus other annoyances.

Sylvia.
 
C

Charlie E.

I find it odd that Spice (I'm using LTSpice) can sometimes flag floating
nodes, but doesn't always do so. It's hard to see how it can even arrive
at a place to start from, yet it seems, sometimes, willing to attempt to
do the calculation regardless.

Sylvia.
Click to expand...

Most of the time when it doesn't flag a floating node, it is because
there is a ground SOMEPLACE that it can connect to, even if that
ground is inside a model of something. You get the most interesting
results that way...

Charlie
 
T

Tim Williams

Jim, Is that not the same as RSHUNT = 1/GMIN, as typically suggested?
I find it odd that Spice (I'm using LTSpice) can sometimes flag floating
nodes, but doesn't always do so. It's hard to see how it can even arrive
at a place to start from, yet it seems, sometimes, willing to attempt to
do the calculation regardless.
Click to expand...

Relying on global RSHUNT sometimes leads to results, but often leads to
really slow results. It's my experience that RSHUNT = 1e8 or so is around
the boundary of stability (for typical other settings), where maybe it'll
barf (singular matrix), or it'll plod along taking miniscule timesteps
trying to resolve the near-singular matrix. It doesn't usually run at
normal speed when a near-singular condition exists, but you wouldn't know
unless you actually look at the circuit with eyes.

It's easier to just ground things correctly in the first place
(explicitly, or with virtual resistors).

Tim
 
B

[email protected]

Floating nodes are always an annoyance, so I've created tiny PSpice

symbols that I can plunk onto schematics without taking up significant

room... connects a resistor of value {1/gmin} from the offending node

to 0 (zero) the universal ground.



Likewise I have one to handle the "less than two connections" error

message.



...Jim Thompson

--

| James E.Thompson | mens |

| Analog Innovations | et |

| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |

| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |

| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |

| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |



I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Click to expand...

Ummmm... the circuit as shown WILL NOT WORK unless you specify a REAL transformer that saturates. Since when does a blocking oscillator oscillate without core saturation. What's-her-name is looking at the SPICE oscillatory divergence. The transistor Vce hits 50V and climbing at under 10ms, it does not saturate or cutoff, all it does is blow up in short order.
 
T

Tim Williams

Ummmm... the circuit as shown WILL NOT WORK unless you specify a REAL
transformer that saturates. Since when does a blocking oscillator
oscillate
without core saturation.
Click to expand...

Umm... since ever? Also, was that supposed to be a question?

Tim
 
T

Tim Williams

I was expecting you to say something dumb. You can do things like
ac-couple the base drive, but the original design was based on saturated
magnetics.
Click to expand...

Works fine on DC coupled base drive. Would you like to see a simulation?
Or a physical model?

Much more ugly on MOSFETs, but technically still works.

There's this thing called inductance, which causes current to increase
over time when a voltage is applied, until the switch can't handle it
anymore. Voltage drops out, feedback turns switch off. Switching is much
slower than with a nice sharp saturation, and losses correspondingly
higher. But it still, well, "blocks".

The timing might not be as accurate as saturating a core with a specific
flux. But then, that has a pretty strong tempco. So do hFE and Rds(on).
Meh, anyone trying to use one for frequency stability is going to have a
bad time.

Old TVs used them only as PLLs, so stability doesn't matter much; even so,
they put the HOLD controls on the front panel because they did drift so
much. Oddly enough, it would be much more difficult to achieve tunable
ramps if said oscillator were fixed by saturation; the horizontal coils
were often air core (or rod core), which won't saturate noticeably at all.

Tim
 
B

[email protected]

On Friday, November 1, 2013 1:29:41 AM UTC-4, Tim Williams wrote:

You think you're clever, but you're coming across as an idiot. The OP's circuit explodes the transistor off its pins.
 
S

Sylvia Else

On Friday, November 1, 2013 1:29:41 AM UTC-4, Tim Williams wrote:

You think you're clever, but you're coming across as an idiot. The OP's circuit explodes the transistor off its pins.
Click to expand...

You're not exactly painting an attractive picture of yourself. The only
person who thinks that smart-arse comments make a person look good is
the person making them. To anyone else, it just makes you look like a bully.

Sylvia.
 
J

John S

You're not exactly painting an attractive picture of yourself. The only
person who thinks that smart-arse comments make a person look good is
the person making them. To anyone else, it just makes you look like a
bully.

Sylvia.
Click to expand...

Well, what would you expect from a person that has his simulation blow
the legs off his simulated pins?
 
J

John S

Could someone please direct post the .ASC file? I don't download
_anything_ that's an executable.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

Philpe posted the LT ascii immediately following Sylvia's response at
9:24 PM. I will not re-post his ascii here. Please read the entire thread.

Of course, you will not see this as you have me kill filed. Good luck to
you.
 
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