how does the differential mode EMI filter differ from normal harmonic
filter? any fundamental difference in design? if yes, why?
filter? any fundamental difference in design? if yes, why?
[email protected] said:how does the differential mode EMI filter differ from normal harmonic
filter?
any fundamental difference in design? if yes, why?
Pooh said:In the same way as differential is not the same as common-mode.
In the same way as differential is not the same as common-mode.
Graham
if yes, why?
I think they deal with different frequency ranges. EMI involves radiohow does the differential mode EMI filter differ from normal harmonic
filter? any fundamental difference in design? if yes, why?
redbelly said:For shame, Graham! You didn't answer the final question:
Because differential is not the same as common-mode.
Mark
[email protected] said:hi John,
Suppose we are talking about the conducted EMI in the range of well
known range 150KHz -30Mhz, how does the differential mode noise differ
from harmonics.
Is not the harmonics cause of the differential mode
noise. Since the Differential mode filter aim is also remove high
frequency component from the supply, is not it same as reducing
distortion. This thing is really bugging me. I have read several books
on EMI, and none explains about it.
I wish to talk to some of the
authors, unfurtunately easy communication to authors are not mentioned
in books.
If they are fundamentally different, whats that? if not why
so huge literature on such differential filter design. and i do not see
any difference from classical filter design.
kristo
hi John,
Suppose we are talking about the conducted EMI in the range of well
known range 150KHz -30Mhz, how does the differential mode noise differ
from harmonics.
Is not the harmonics cause of the differential mode
noise.
Since the Differential mode filter aim is also remove high
frequency component from the supply, is not it same as reducing
distortion.
This thing is really bugging me. I have read several books
on EMI, and none explains about it. I wish to talk to some of the
authors, unfurtunately easy communication to authors are not mentioned
in books. If they are fundamentally different, whats that? if not why
so huge literature on such differential filter design. and i do not see
any difference from classical filter design.
[email protected] said:hi,
this discussion was not to annoy anyone. It was merely for learning
purpose. The person who himslef do not know the dobut
runs to beat the other back. It has been clearly seen from the
discussion.
The harmonics i was refering is to switching frequency harmonics is
SMPS.
I thought as much initially. To suppress that type of interference (
switching noise ) you use a *common-mode* filter.
But you should be aware that 'harmonics' are another issue entirely. See
IEC 61000-3-2.
I'm not aware of the use of any differential mode filter in typical EMI
applications btw.
legg said:If you are refering to commodity power supply AC line filters, then
perhaps your impression is due to the fact that common mode choke
leakage and loss are also effective on differential mode components,
if the appropriate differential mode capacitors are present.
At the actual conversion frequency, however, these small parasitic
inductive and resistive terms are seldom sufficiently to allow
reasonably sized and priced capacitors to work, without additional
discrete differential mode inductors. I'm suprised you've not noticed
their presence.
Differential filters are everywhere, in general EMI control of signal
lines, on input and output, even if only comprised of a single series
resistor, or feedthrough capacitor.
I'm not aware of the use of any differential mode filter in typical EMI
applications btw.
John said:Pooh Bear wrote:
(snip)
Then you have missed something.
Any common garden variety EMI filter has both common mode and
differential elements. In this typical example of a commercial EMI
filter, the common mode (coupled inductor) choke and line to ground
capacitors are the (primarily) common mode filter elements while the
individual series inductors and line to line capacitors are the
(primarily) differential mode filter elements.
http://www.cor.com/PDF/Q.pdf
Pooh said:John Popelish wrote: (snip)
But it's called a *common-mode* filter you clot !
Parasitic effects are another thing entirely !
John said:(quote of first paragraph on this data sheet)
"This series of RFI power line filters has been developed
specifically for switching power supplies and is designed to
be all the power line filtering needed to control conducted
emissions all the way down to 10kHz. High attenuation is
provided for both common mode and differential mode
interference throughout the frequency range with no
degradation of performance due to the large peak currents
drawn by switching power supplies."
Did you see somewhere on this data sheet where the filter is "called a
common mode filter"?
I didn't refer to any parasitic effects, but to the purposes of
specific components, included in this typical line filter.
(Hint: Exclamation points and personal slurs do not improve your
arguments.)
Pooh said:John Popelish wrote:
The filter you quote talks about going down to 10kHz. One can infer
something about it from that.
The typical 'off the shelf' EMI filter only goes down to 150kHz !
A rather different beast IMHO.
Nor is any filter I've come across been suited to reducing line freq
harmonics of order 3 or 5.
I suspect the OP isn't at all familiar with EMI measures.