Electrical outlet question

[[email protected]]

I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add it to the current light switch box. This box currently has two switches, one for the fan,light and one for the vanity light. Each switch has a white wire, a blackwire, and a ground. When checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on bothswitches always has power. Each black wire only has power when the switch is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the power wire. Can I take these white wires off the switches, connect them to the top and bottom "hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed the switches from both terminals on the other side of the gfi? When I did this messing around with the switches,everything worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was always the constant power wire.

 

[Bill]

I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add it to the current light switch box. This box currently has two switches, one for the fan,light and one for the vanity light. Each switch has a white wire, a black wire, and a ground. When checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on both switches always has power. Each black wire only has power when the switch is turned on. I am assuming the white

wire is the power wire. Can I take these white wires off the switches, connect them to the top and bottom "hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed the switches from both terminals on the other side of the gfi? When I did this messing around with the switches, everything worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was always the constant power wire.

If your switches are wired like the following, then you DO NOT have
hot/neutral power at the switches and will need to run a new wire...
http://www.make-my-own-house.com/images/elcodedblack.jpg

If your switches are wired like this, then you have power and can add an
outlet...
http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/wiring-light-switch.gif


If you do not understand the difference, hire an electrician.

 

[[email protected]]

Ok, in the first example, are you saying it is possible to power a gfci andfor it to work, just that the GFCI portion will not work on the outlet as intended?

I appreciate it!

 

[Rich.]

I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add it to the
current light switch box. This box currently has two switches, one for the
fan,light and one for the vanity light. Each switch has a white wire, a
black wire, and a ground. When checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on
both switches always has power. Each black wire only has power when the
switch is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the power wire. Can I
take these white wires off the switches, connect them to the top and bottom
"hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed the switches from both terminals
on the other side of the gfi? When I did this messing around with the
switches, everything worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was
always the constant power wire.


First off the disclaimer: The newer code requirement is for GFI outlets in
bathrooms to be 20-amp and also separate from the lighting circuit. So if
you wish to do it the correct way, you have to run a 20-amp line from the
panel.

If you wish to do it the way you're intending, then some simple re-splicing
is in order. First turn off the power, then take the white wire going to the
fan switch and pigtail 3 black wires to it. Leave the existing black wires
on each switch alone. Take the white wire off the switch for the vanity
light. Connect one of the black pigtail wires to each switch, (leaving one
for the moment.) Either up in the attic or behind the vanity light you're
going to find the main splice for the bathroom wiring. In this splice you
will have to take the white wire that ran to the vanity light switch off of
the hot wire splice and splice it to the neutral wires. This leaves you with
one black pigtail wire and one white neutral wire back at the switches. Once
power is restored, these 2 wires will supply power to the GFI. I'm sure you
can figure out that all of the grounds go together and to each device.

 

[bud--]

I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add it to the
current light switch box. This box currently has two switches, one for
the fan,light and one for the vanity light. Each switch has a white
wire, a black wire, and a ground. When checking with a voltmeter, the
white wire on both switches always has power. Each black wire only has
power when the switch is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the
power wire. Can I take these white wires off the switches, connect them
to the top and bottom "hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed the
switches from both terminals on the other side of the gfi? When I did
this messing around with the switches, everything worked properly. I
just thought that the black wire was always the constant power wire.


First off the disclaimer: The newer code requirement is for GFI outlets
in bathrooms to be 20-amp and also separate from the lighting circuit.
So if you wish to do it the correct way, you have to run a 20-amp line
from the panel.

If you wish to do it the way you're intending, then some simple
re-splicing is in order. First turn off the power, then take the white
wire going to the fan switch and pigtail 3 black wires to it. Leave the
existing black wires on each switch alone. Take the white wire off the
switch for the vanity light. Connect one of the black pigtail wires to
each switch, (leaving one for the moment.) Either up in the attic or
behind the vanity light you're going to find the main splice for the
bathroom wiring.

Not likely there is a "main splice for the bathroom wiring".

The wiring method that makes sense is a 2-wire romex from the vanity
light and a 2-wire from the fan.

The NEC requires all wires for a run be in the same cable or raceway.
You can't get the hot from the fan and the neutral from the light.

There is a duplicate question from a long thread in alt.home.repair
which addresses the issues. The OP probably doesn't like the answers he
is getting there.

 

[Doug Miller]

[email protected] wrote in

I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add
it to the current light switch box. This box currently has two
switches, one for the fan,light and one for the vanity light.
Each switch has a white wire, a black wire, and a ground. When
checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on both switches
always has power. Each black wire only has power when the switch
is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the power wire.
Can I take these white wires off the switches, connect them to
the top and bottom "hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed
the switches from both terminals on the other side of the gfi?
When I did this messing around with the switches, everything
worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was always
the constant power wire.

This was answered, quite thoroughly, by myself and several others, in alt.home.repair when
you posted it there.

You CANNOT do this safely or legally because you DO NOT have a neutral in that box.

 

[Phoena]

I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add it to the current light switch box. This box currently has two switches, one for the fan,light and one for the vanity light. Each switch has a white wire, a black wire, and a ground. When checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on both switches always has power. Each black wire only has power when the switch is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the power wire. Can I take these white wires off the switches, connect them to the top and bottom "hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed the switches from both terminals on the other side of the gfi? When I did this messing around with the switches, everything worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was always the constant power wire.

What the **** are you trying to do? Turn the lights off/on with the
TEST/RESET buttons?

 

[Phoena]

The NEC requires all wires for a run be in the same cable or raceway.
You can't get the hot from the fan and the neutral from the light.

When i wanted a dedicated circuit for my microwave I got a long piece of
red wire and a double circuit breaker. I ran the wire from the circuit
breaker along the wall and held it there using Scotch tape. I wired it
to the microwave oven and backstabbed the neutral from an existing
outlet. I then loosened the screw that holds the wall plate to the
outlet on the said outlet and wrapped the ground wire around it.

They told me that what I did was a serious NEC code violation. I told
the Nippon Electric Company they can come over here and kiss my fat ass.