Electric Vehicle Project Assistance

[D.S.]

Hello!

I am Doug Simpson and I am asking for your assistance with a project to
convert a fossil-fueled vehicle to electric power.

If you would like to participate, please visit this website.

http://dsjscrd.gotdns.com/ev

Please help me with this project!

Doug Simpson

 

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

Hello!

I am Doug Simpson and I am asking for your assistance with a project to
convert a fossil-fueled vehicle to electric power.

If you would like to participate, please visit this website.

http://dsjscrd.gotdns.com/ev

Please help me with this project!

Doug Simpson

Why should we pay for your project? I did my own.
As for your contention there is only one place to install the electric
motor, you are wrong. With the right motor you do not need a
transmission either, and there is nothing stopping you from running an
automatic. Also, starting with a pickup, there is no reason you should
have to modify the suspension at all if you do a bit of planning.

On my Fiat I strengthened the rear suspension by adding one leaf from
a Fiat station wagon, but had to soften the front suspension
considerably - the overall weight was within 200 lbs of the original
weight.
The ideal vehicle to start with is a vehicle with very good
aerodynamics and low weight. A pickup truck is NOT necessarily the
best choice. I'd start out with a GEO or a little Hyundai wagon today.
The '75 128L Fiat was the lightest practical body I could get my
hands on back in '77 for a reasonable cost - it was essentially free
with no engine.
A multi phase AC motor (or 4 in a Subaru Justy body) and controller
would be my first choice, with cost not being an issue - but I ran an
aircraft generator with a crude speed control. I'd do the same today
(or use 2) for a "budget" conversion, but my controller would be much
more sophisticated, for very little extra cost.Used fork lift motors
are also more readilly available - and in many cases lighter than they
were back when I did mine. With a real traction motor the transmission
can be eliminated as well. MOSFETS were prohibitively expensive back
then - less than a dollar each today - so the power handling can be
done for under $25 instead of over $600 for either Mosfet or SCR 25
years ago. Also much more efficient than the old bipolar transistor
controllers like the Allis Chalmers. Run the highest voltage system
you can, within reason. 96 volt or better is preferred, keeping
current levels in the easilly handled range. 600 amps gets a bit
difficult to manage, particularly when you can do the same power with
125.

Do your homework first - and you CAN do a conversion for significantly
less than half your projected cost.

 

[D.S.]

you for your resonse!

Read on!

Why should we pay for your project? I did my own.

This is your choice! u choose to hel, great! If not, that is great, too!

As for your contention there is only one place to install the electric
motor, you are wrong. With the right motor you do not need a
transmission either, and there is nothing stopping you from running an

I agree, except cost god up significantly for the exotic AC motors
*required* for a non-transmission conversion.

automatic. Also, starting with a pickup, there is no reason you should

Automatics require the motor to be running for the best operation
otherwise there is some lag when you ste on the accelerator.
Unacceptable in traffic! When you need it to go, you need it to go!

have to modify the suspension at all if you do a bit of planning.

You will some on a 120V system, because that is a lot of battery weight!
20 batteries at 60-70 pounds each is quite a bit. . .

On my Fiat I strengthened the rear suspension by adding one leaf from
a Fiat station wagon, but had to soften the front suspension
considerably - the overall weight was within 200 lbs of the original
weight.
The ideal vehicle to start with is a vehicle with very good
aerodynamics and low weight. A pickup truck is NOT necessarily the
best choice. I'd start out with a GEO or a little Hyundai wagon today.

I agree a pickup may not be the best choice if you need to go "The
Distance" however, for the use I am planning, a pickup will be far more
practical for my operation than a car.

The '75 128L Fiat was the lightest practical body I could get my
hands on back in '77 for a reasonable cost - it was essentially free
with no engine.
A multi phase AC motor (or 4 in a Subaru Justy body) and controller
would be my first choice, with cost not being an issue - but I ran an

Cost is an issue. . . That is why I am asking for assistance!

aircraft generator with a crude speed control. I'd do the same today
(or use 2) for a "budget" conversion, but my controller would be much
more sophisticated, for very little extra cost.Used fork lift motors

Agreed. New with warranty would be better, though. . .

are also more readilly available - and in many cases lighter than they
were back when I did mine. With a real traction motor the transmission
can be eliminated as well. MOSFETS were prohibitively expensive back
then - less than a dollar each today - so the power handling can be
done for under $25 instead of over $600 for either Mosfet or SCR 25
years ago. Also much more efficient than the old bipolar transistor
controllers like the Allis Chalmers. Run the highest voltage system
you can, within reason. 96 volt or better is preferred, keeping
current levels in the easilly handled range. 600 amps gets a bit
difficult to manage, particularly when you can do the same power with
125.

Do your homework first - and you CAN do a conversion for significantly
less than half your projected cost.

I have done my homework. And if I want to cobble some crap together and
hope for the best, I might be able to do it for half the price. But I
want a quality made, reliable system when I get it completed. If you
read the entire website, you will see that part or the project deals
with practicality of EVs for general use. I want it to be reliable and
trustworthy, and to go when I need it to.

If I can get the stuff to do the conversion for half the cost, I'd
definitely be interested, but I want quality, not cobble-ity. . .

Thanks again for your response!

Doug

 

[wmbjk]

If I can get the stuff to do the conversion for half the cost, I'd
definitely be interested, but I want quality, not cobble-ity. . .

From the web site: "No work on the conversion will be started until
sufficient funding has been received to complete a usable conversion"

IOW, you're only going to do it if others will pay the freight. I
predict that if there are any donations at all, they'll be few and
small. For instance, I wouldn't contribute a dime after reading your
proposal, and not a nickel after reading your comments about
"quality". But if you're serious, you need to add an explanation to
the site about returning donations if the project is cancelled.

BTW, I'm proposing a solar-powered Ferris Wheel in my yard. How much
are you in for?

Wayne

 

[D.S.]

From the web site: "No work on the conversion will be started until
sufficient funding has been received to complete a usable conversion"

IOW, you're only going to do it if others will pay the freight. I
predict that if there are any donations at all, they'll be few and
small. For instance, I wouldn't contribute a dime after reading your
proposal, and not a nickel after reading your comments about
"quality". But if you're serious, you need to add an explanation to
the site about returning donations if the project is cancelled.

You are right, I do need to make a portion of the page offer refunds if
the project does not get completed. It does state that the project will
not even start until sufficient funds are obtained to produce a working
vehicle. I did have the stuff you are talking about in there at one
time, but removed it because, if you will notice, it isn't a
money-making proposition for anyone. It is simply a market test, and
really, a study to see how environmentally-minded people are.

Did I say you have to donate hundreds or thousands? No, I did not. If
everyone who reads this list sent a dollar, likely that would be far
more than sufficient to do this project. But, like you, many are just
complaining and griping instead of being neighborly and helping with a
worthwhile project, for less than that cup of coffee sitting there on
your desk.

Doug

 

[wmbjk]

You are right, I do need to make a portion of the page offer refunds if
the project does not get completed. It does state that the project will
not even start until sufficient funds are obtained to produce a working
vehicle. I did have the stuff you are talking about in there at one
time, but removed it because, if you will notice, it isn't a
money-making proposition for anyone. It is simply a market test, and
really, a study to see how environmentally-minded people are.

Did I say you have to donate hundreds or thousands? No, I did not. If
everyone who reads this list sent a dollar, likely that would be far
more than sufficient to do this project. But, like you, many are just
complaining and griping instead of being neighborly and helping with a
worthwhile project, for less than that cup of coffee sitting there on
your desk.

Doug

I help neighbors with lots of worthwhile projects, but yours doesn't
qualify. I've even been known to pitch in on some not-so-worthwhile
endeavors when I like somebody's attitude. Again, you didn't make the
cut. Regardless, mine or anyone's "complaining and griping" shouldn't
be a problem for you. But this will be http://tinyurl.com/dxrsj Looks
like you've been in the "please send me a few bucks" game for quite a
while. Man, you are one lame spammer!

Wayne

 

[D.S.]

I help neighbors with lots of worthwhile projects, but yours doesn't
qualify. I've even been known to pitch in on some not-so-worthwhile
endeavors when I like somebody's attitude. Again, you didn't make the
cut. Regardless, mine or anyone's "complaining and griping" shouldn't
be a problem for you. But this will be http://tinyurl.com/dxrsj Looks
like you've been in the "please send me a few bucks" game for quite a
while. Man, you are one lame spammer!

Wayne

Yeah, I admit, just like you, that I was drawn in on one of those
"programs" but as you will also notice, I have retracted every one of
those messages that I posted. (Other's responses are still there, I,
unfortunately, can't do anything about those. . .) When I saw one of
those, I thought that would be a way to help fund that project, but,
just like you, I found out the hard way that it is not something that
makes people happy and makes them not like a guy. Not a good deal! I did
not intend for that to be such a bad deal. . . BIG MISTAKE!!!

As a result, people think I am a scammer and am just trying to make a
quick buck. But that is *NOT* the case. If you followed the link near
the bottom of the webpage, (online form) you would have been taken to a
web page that gives you the opportunity to fill in your information to
be listed in the donor list on the project. The very reason for that
form is to obtain information from donors, just in case the project
failed or the donors wanted their donation funds back. Also, donors
names will be listed along with the vehicle as it is displayed at events
and etc.

And, if I was an anonymous scammer, do you think I would have posted my
actual home address on the website? Anyone who wishes to verify that
information is very welcome to.

This funding is going into a special account and will not be used for
any other purpose.

This is a new project, and as such, the website hasn't been fully
developed yet, since the project hasn't really started. As it
progresses, the funds raised will be displayed, as well as photographic
and textual writeup on the progress of the conversion. At any time, you
will be able to see the progress and what your donation has made possible.

To all who have read this far. . .EXCUSE ME for falling for that scheme. . .

I, like millions of others in America, have seen these very programs
talked about on TV and how successful they are and how much money they
can bring in. It was fully my intention to do that to fund this project.
Again. . . EXCUSE ME!!!!

 

[wmbjk]

wmbjk wrote:

Yeah, I admit, just like you, that I was drawn in on one of those
"programs"

What the heck is that "just like you" baloney?

but as you will also notice, I have retracted every one of
those messages that I posted. (Other's responses are still there, I,
unfortunately, can't do anything about those. . .)

I don't know what you've retracted, but there are still about 30 goofy
money-scheme messages from you in the archives
http://tinyurl.com/dxrsj.

When I saw one of
those, I thought that would be a way to help fund that project, but,
just like you, I found out the hard way that it is not something that
makes people happy and makes them not like a guy. Not a good deal! I did
not intend for that to be such a bad deal. . . BIG MISTAKE!!!

As a result, people think I am a scammer and am just trying to make a
quick buck. But that is *NOT* the case.

<snipped more of the same>

According to Google, you started posting get-rich-quick crap in Aug.
2001 http://tinyurl.com/bzss2. Your latest one was 3 days ago
http://tinyurl.com/bwz6k. The best spin you can put on that is that it
took you five years to figure out that pyramid schemes and spamming
are stupid. Which in turn means that you're way too slow a learner to
build an EV. Never fear, you may still be qualified to act as a
"consultant"...

Wayne

 

[Steve Spence]

I help neighbors with lots of worthwhile projects, but yours doesn't
qualify. I've even been known to pitch in on some not-so-worthwhile
endeavors when I like somebody's attitude. Again, you didn't make the
cut. Regardless, mine or anyone's "complaining and griping" shouldn't
be a problem for you. But this will be http://tinyurl.com/dxrsj Looks
like you've been in the "please send me a few bucks" game for quite a
while. Man, you are one lame spammer!

Wayne

Hey Wayne, send me $40 for a voltmeter and a temperature gauge for my
veggiegen, it's market research .... <grin>

All kidding aside, we do get donations, because we provide a service,
renewable energy information. We aren't building toys that benefit no
one but ourselves. Most of our "toys" are self funded, as our donations
came to about $400 last year. All our research is free to anyone who
cares to read, ot just the "investors" .....

 

[Pop]

I've tried to keep my mouth shut and just ignore this crapola but
I find it drawing me somehow, just begging me to contribute, so
here's my contribution, inline ===> :
....
: Yeah, I admit, just like you, that I was drawn in on one of
those
: "programs" but as you will also notice, I have retracted every
one of
: those messages that I posted. ...
===> Retracted? What does that mean? If it's true, and such
valuable information, why no refereces as proof? The burden is
on you for that, not the possible suckers, I mean, readers.

When I saw one of
: those, I thought that would be a way to help fund that project,
but,
: just like you, I found out the hard way that it is not
something that
: makes people happy and makes them not like a guy.
===> I didn't find out the hard way: I just used my head when
the thought occurred to me and said to myself, "Self, that's a
dumb idea and would only work on suckers and unsuspecting
lonelies. Not worth further thought."

....
: As a result, people think I am a scammer
===> Well, you ARE a newsgroup spammer, by definition, in fact.
I don't think it, I know it. You are also almost surely a
scammer looking for his mark/s.

and am just trying to make a
: quick buck.
===> There are no "quick bucks" to be made honestly. Fessing up
to your fraud attempts won't help.

But that is *NOT* the case.
===> Yes, it *IS* the case. Either that or you are a complete
moron.

If you followed the link near
: the bottom of the webpage, (online form) you would have been
taken to a
==> Good surfing habits tell one to NOT follow links to pages
they aren't familiar with when it wasn't their own idea. It's
like "trust me" and "but...": They are both red flags meaning
stop right there and go no further.

: web page that gives you the opportunity to fill in your
information to
: be listed in the donor list on the project.
===> I'm almost but not quite curious enough to go see how much
personal information is required. Unless you're prepared to
receive a lot of phoney/forged donations, you'd have to have a
certain amount of info, so you'd be damned if you did and damned
if you didn't.

The very reason for that
: form is to obtain information from donors, just in case the
project
: failed or the donors wanted their donation funds back.
===> Oh, and that was nice and clearly stated, right? Easy for
all to see?
Also, donors
: names will be listed along with the vehicle as it is displayed
at events
: and etc.
===> There can be no events without a product prototype to show.
Why am I so sure you don't mean that, I wonder? You mean, after
spending all that money, if the project failed you were still
going to return all the donated money? I don't -think- so!
That's not even close to any paradigm I've ever heard of!
:
: And, if I was an anonymous scammer, do you think I would have
posted my
: actual home address on the website?
===> Now, how would ANYONE know that it was your REAL home
address? Name? Etc.? Boy, do I have a deal for you if you
meant that! You're anonymous and that's what you intended - just
admit it.

Anyone who wishes to verify that
: information is very welcome to.
===> No, the onus is on YOU to make such verifications and
clarifications easy to do. All the "donor" should need to do is
follow up and a little further detective work to check your TRW,
etc.. It's YOUR job to convince donors that YOU are worthy, not
the donor's.
:
: This funding is going into a special account and will not be
used for
: any other purpose.
===> And you can prove that? Details please?
:
: This is a new project, and as such, the website hasn't been
fully
: developed yet, since the project hasn't really started.
===> Web site status vs. project status are apples & oranges.
You either have a plan and goals or you don't. You either have a
vision or you don't. You either have a convincing enough resume
to convince others you're capable of what you say or you dont.
You either know what your'e doign or you don't. You either have
convincing support for your project or you don't. An d you
don't, I"m sure, from your posts and other's research posted
here.
As it
: progresses, the funds raised will be displayed, as well as
photographic
: and textual writeup on the progress of the conversion.
===> For everyone to see, right? No consideration for
intellectual protection, no insurance, no security, nothing?
Wow, ...
At any time, you
: will be able to see the progress and what your donation has
made possible.
===> REally? For some reason I doubt that. No make that I'm
sure you won't do it. You might make something up, but you
won't -do- it. If you're ready to share this valuable info with
everyone, including the world, then I assume you already h ave a
patent number? Please provide it. How was the patent search
done? And by whom?

:
: To all who have read this far. . .EXCUSE ME for falling for
that scheme. . .
==> You also fell far short of any logic or reason. If you're
serious, you're in bad need of more education!
:
: I, like millions of others in America, have seen these very
programs
: talked about on TV and how successful they are and how much
money they
: can bring in.
==> NOT with a history like yours, they aren't! If fact, other
than fraud and scams, I've NEVER seen one with a history anywhere
near what you are building up!

It was fully my intention to do that to fund this project.
: Again. . . EXCUSE ME!!!!

===> No, I won't excuse you!!!! I don't make excuses for
ignorants or scammers, whichever you are. Even if you were just
an ignorant, which I don't think is the case, you would have
about a 99.98% chance of losing your shirt even if the project
succeeded and made millions: You'd lose it all before you got
anywhere near reaping any profits.

And stop believing the myths about "send me a dollar and ..."
success stories. No one has ever gotten rich off them and many
have ended up in jail or destitute to boot.

Why is it you aren't putting your own money into this?

 

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

you for your resonse!

Read on!

This is your choice! u choose to hel, great! If not, that is great, too!

I agree, except cost god up significantly for the exotic AC motors
*required* for a non-transmission conversion.

You CAN use a series wouns DC motor without a transmission. All
Sebrings and many other purpose built electrics run direct drive with
DC motors.

Automatics require the motor to be running for the best operation
otherwise there is some lag when you ste on the accelerator.
Unacceptable in traffic! When you need it to go, you need it to go!

You do NOT need a torque converter on an electric motored automatic.
And the hydraulics CAN be powered by a separate electric motor.

You will some on a 120V system, because that is a lot of battery weight!
20 batteries at 60-70 pounds each is quite a bit. . .

20 batteries at 60 lbs each is 1200 lbs. But you CAN run 12 volt
batteries, requiring only 10 batteries, and you CAN use smaller
batteries. How far do you want to travel on a charge? And how much
horsepower do you want to waste hauwling around batteries?
If you have 20 40 AH batteries you have 4.8KW hours of battery, or 6
HP hours. That will move a small aerodynamic 2400 lb car 50 miles in
town with battery to spare, or 30 miles at 50mph. A 6 volt 20ah
battery is about 20 lbs, so your "battery diet" is 400 lbs. Add 100
lbs for a low tech motor capable of providing the required performance
to run sans transmission, or 45 lbs for one that will need the 100 lb
tranny and give you better efficiency (more miles per AH battery
capacity) and you are only a couple hundred pounds heavier than the
engine, full fuel tank, cooling system, sound deadening, exhaust, etc
that you can do without.

Remember, everything (weight wize) the car does not have is something
you don't need to provide power to move. Keep it simple and light.
It's the only way electric makes sense.

I agree a pickup may not be the best choice if you need to go "The
Distance" however, for the use I am planning, a pickup will be far more
practical for my operation than a car.

Then you need to be ready to pay the penalties - and they will be
significant.

Cost is an issue. . . That is why I am asking for assistance!

Agreed. New with warranty would be better, though. . .

New? With warrantee? Better? HOW? Gamble a bit. used surplus will
cost you significantly less than new - generally closer to 1/4. You
can replace the motor FOUR TIMES for the cost of a new one - and if
you burn out a new one because of something you did wrong (and that is
pretty well the ONLY way you will burn one out) good luck getting
warranty coverage anyway.

I have done my homework. And if I want to cobble some crap together and
hope for the best, I might be able to do it for half the price. But I
want a quality made, reliable system when I get it completed. If you
read the entire website, you will see that part or the project deals
with practicality of EVs for general use. I want it to be reliable and
trustworthy, and to go when I need it to.

And you want someone else to pay for it? Sure. Build one on the cheap
to prove you can do it, THEN mabee you can get investors to throw
money your way to "improve" it.

If I can get the stuff to do the conversion for half the cost, I'd
definitely be interested, but I want quality, not cobble-ity. . .

You can definitely get quality at low cost if you are not too proud to
beg. And you most definitely are NOT that. Talk to a local fork-lift
company and see what you can wrangle motor-wise. Ditto with the
controller - or make your own. Then, after some experience, determine
where money will give you the best return - in battery technology,
controller technology, or motor technology. See where you can reduce
weight, drag, and rolling resistance - all three come a lot cheaper
than power.

 

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

After reading that tripe, no more help from me! Money grubbing cheat!!

 

[[email protected]]

I might donate you few bucks if you prove me your current progress till
todate on this project, after all you are dreaming on this project for some
time ....right ? show us some pictures and any paper work on your website ?

If you have NOTHING ....all bloony then you are one FUCKTARD asshole who is
trying to make quick bucks thinking ppls are stupid here and will donate you
money for your project.

I am working on similar project and what ever means and funds I can spare
for it I am working on it slowly but yes progress is there ...... and for
this kinda project you don't need million $$$$$$$ to experiment..........
you can always start with little money and I don't see any major investment
needed in here, even a care can be bought from junk yard for few hundred
bucks ....or may be they will donate you free if you tell them about your
intention for building electric car.

Now don't tell me you don't have few hundred $$$$$ in pocket ...... and
lets suppose you don't have it even that amount......then you are better off
to go **** your self in IRAQ then dreaming about this project, cauz may be
you make some money while serving in IRAQ and if you survive there, probably
you don't have to beg here ........ Got my POINT ?

 

[D.S.]

Alright already. . .

That is enough.

It seems you people don't have anything better to do that to shoot down
a guy.

So, just forget it!

I was hoping for encouragement, if nothing else, for my project.

All I have gotten from anyone was slammed.

I wasn't going to say this but one of the responders brought it up so I
am going to say it. They asked me why I haven't put any of my own money
into the roject. Fact is, I have. But with my very low income, I don't
have much to put into such a project.

So, just forget it, people. I will do my project with or without your
dis(en)couragement.

I was not patenting my project.

I was not selling my project.

I was not looking to get rich from the project.

I wasn't even going to start the damned thing until there was enough
funds to complete a working conversion (in case it failed, I would have
the funds to return to donors). Says that right on the webpage.

I wasn't expecting all this neagtive shit.

I was hoping people would want to help a guy with a project.

So, FORGET IT!

You won't see me here ever again talking about this.

Good bye!

 

[Gordon Richmond]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass as you head out to look for a
clue.

Seriously, three points for you to ponder:

1. Electric vehicle conversions are not really rare and you are far
from the first person to have such an idea. Why should you expect
others to help finance a project that doesn't even break any new
ground?

2. Your posts for pyramid schemes or PayPal scams reduce your
credibility here to ZERO.

3. Even if you claim to have retracted such posts, the very fact that
you made them in the first place indicates that you were standing
behind the door when the brains got handed out.

Gordon Richmond

 

[D.S.]

Please read on. . .

Don't let the door hit you in the ass as you head out to look for a
clue.

Point taken. . .

Seriously, three points for you to ponder:

1. Electric vehicle conversions are not really rare and you are far
from the first person to have such an idea. Why should you expect
others to help finance a project that doesn't even break any new
ground?

I never said it was anything "NEW". . .

2. Your posts for pyramid schemes or PayPal scams reduce your
credibility here to ZERO.

That has been fully realized. . . and is SERIOUSLY REGRETTED!!!!

3. Even if you claim to have retracted such posts, the very fact that
you made them in the first place indicates that you were standing
behind the door when the brains got handed out.

And, it was a very opaque door. . . hindsight is 20/20. . .

Had I known the response was going to be so degrading, I would never
have made those posts. . .

Thank you for your response!

 

[[email protected]]

Dough:

If you still wanna work on this project on your own .......... that's
perfectly fine.

Just a suggestion ..... instead of begging money on here and on ya web
site..... put a list of those parts that you think you gonna need for ya
truck conversion, I will see if I can come up with any spare parts that I
don't need in my electric car project, I might donate it to you free of
charge for your project and I am sure other peoples in this group will come
forward to help you too in donating parts in some way.

Atleast this way we can see your genuine intentions about this project , not
making quick bucks by spamming ppls.

 

[D.S.]

Thank you for your positive interest in my project!

I will take your advice. . .

Parts are very welcome!

I will update the website with a parts list and whatever is needed and
it can be done that way as well!

Thanks for the good advice and ideas!

D.S.

 

[wmbjk]

Almost all responses in these tech groups are
degrading.

No, but those who spam for 5 years, and those who make a career of
nym-shifting nitwittedness, should expect a cool reception....
anywhere. Anyway Gymmy, how much did you send Doug for his project?

Wayne