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ECM - Jeep computer - help IDing the motherboard please.
- Thread starter PFGraham
- Start date
davenn
Moderator
Resistors, capacitors and semiconductors, with a few inductors thrown in.
Identifying parts to what purpose? What do you hope to glean from this process?
Identifying parts to what purpose? What do you hope to glean from this process?
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Yes, I see, what do I glean.
I was looking for people that might help me figure out what all of it is so I can talk intelligently about what parts need to be AND / OR can be replaced by newer, less hot, longer lasting and more user adjustable then the original ones.
In addition, I would like to understand the updating process of the EPROM or like on this board.
Having looked around on this board, it looks like you guys 'IDing' - I could use some help with the photo I sent.
That's what I need.
Thanks
I was looking for people that might help me figure out what all of it is so I can talk intelligently about what parts need to be AND / OR can be replaced by newer, less hot, longer lasting and more user adjustable then the original ones.
In addition, I would like to understand the updating process of the EPROM or like on this board.
Having looked around on this board, it looks like you guys 'IDing' - I could use some help with the photo I sent.
That's what I need.
Thanks
The image isn't clear enough to do positive identification.
What make you think you can do a better design job than the muti-billion-backed companies (Jeep) that created the original?
Updating the EPROMs means removing them and placing them into an EPROM programmer and re-writing the contents.
What make you think you can do a better design job than the muti-billion-backed companies (Jeep) that created the original?
Updating the EPROMs means removing them and placing them into an EPROM programmer and re-writing the contents.
I'm not sure there is any real value in removing the EPROM but I would love to find it and learn to read them.
Look, Kellys_eyes, if you don't want to help, that's ok.
Other people might.
I'm a dyed in the wool Jeep owner and I've got several problems where all fingers point to this CPU (ECM or PCU).
I'm looking for solutions and in order to figure it out, I need to understand the part I'm talking about.
Patrick
Look, Kellys_eyes, if you don't want to help, that's ok.
Other people might.
I'm a dyed in the wool Jeep owner and I've got several problems where all fingers point to this CPU (ECM or PCU).
I'm looking for solutions and in order to figure it out, I need to understand the part I'm talking about.
Patrick
davenn
Moderator
hi Patrick
honestly mate .... it's just too much of a mess to be able to see anything in detail .... really, really is
unless you can find some one on a jeep specific forum that has done repairs to one of these,
you are highly unlikely to succeed
the really most probably solution ...... get a replacement
Sorry to be blunt like that, but you need to understand the difficulty of your request
Dave
Not your mate but am a rugby coach.
No problem, I'll take very detailed pictures of each component and get back to ya'.
Patrick
Honestly pal, chum, cobber, fella, I'm not actually against what you're trying to do. We all have a vested interest in knowing how things work and would be more than eager to accommodate your needs but regardless of the pictures you might get to post the end result will remain the same. The whole unit is a 'computer' with the control program stored in the EPROMs. The program will require to be 'disassembled' to identify the areas that do the actual 'control' if you want to modify any parts of it. The hardware part of it is 'fixed' - other than maybe boosting the port current handling capabilities you can't really add to them.
We might identify some of the input/output ports on the main connector - you can do that from the vehicle schematic anyway - and re-programming is usually possible via the CANBUS protocol and the ODBII connector in the vehicle itself.
There may be some documentation on the EPROM contents somewhere but it's usually 'unpublished' and the manufacturers certainly won't be helpful.
Even those that HAVE managed to decode the content are likely to keep such information to themselves for the 'value' it has - re-programmed EPROMs are not cheap..... possibly the reason for your current course of action?
Either way you will need the software to disassemble the EPROM contents and knowledge of assembly language to make changes. This will require identifying the main processor type - a clear picture of the board helps here.
Have you sourced any solutions to dissolve the silicon gunge? Acetone perhaps? That's probably the only way to get a clear enough image of the board and the parts we need to see.
You'll also have to desolder the shielding over the section of board that houses the processor itself.
There are open-source vehicle ECM units but I don't know if there's one specifically adapted for the Jeep - these would be the best route to go if you wanted to make your own ECM that would be fully programmable to specifications YOU want.
By all means clean up the board and allow us a closer look - seriously, I'm curious to what's in one as much as you are.
As mentioned by @davenn the Jeep Forum is a useful place to go for information - a quick Google found this article on repairing dud ECM's (capacitor changing) here:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/crash-course-brain-surgery-replacing-capacitors-ecu-492597/
and there's bound to be more such information - or someone there with more intimate knowledge of them.
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Looking at the pictures it seems that you have a transformer and a few capacitors with rust marks.
To me this means that the silicone encapsulation or the main harness seal has broken down, and not only these components, but the PCB itself are damaged. I honestly don't know if the board is multi layered.
It is most probably uneconomic to repair it especially as there should be a fair number of 23 year old Jeeps in the junkyards with donor ECM's.
To me this means that the silicone encapsulation or the main harness seal has broken down, and not only these components, but the PCB itself are damaged. I honestly don't know if the board is multi layered.
It is most probably uneconomic to repair it especially as there should be a fair number of 23 year old Jeeps in the junkyards with donor ECM's.
Any particular reason you think it's the PCM that needs identification and repair?
I used to work on them for a living, and one thing Chrysler stressed in training which as an Electrical/drivability tech I found true in the field, is that 95% of the time, it isn't the PCM that is the problem. So I am curious.
I used to work on them for a living, and one thing Chrysler stressed in training which as an Electrical/drivability tech I found true in the field, is that 95% of the time, it isn't the PCM that is the problem. So I am curious.
Your current level of knowledge seems relatively low (no insult intended, bear with me...) which makes this process, that is difficult to begin with for even experienced engineers, seemingly impossible for the average amateur.
You should also be aware that the OEM will have some very strict legal protections on anyone attempting to reverse-engineer their hardware....
Fortunately there are quite a few similar projects currently under development and with some interesting and exciting prospects for their future.
I would highly recommend you check out the following sites and learn from the process they used to develop their own designs before considering going down this path yourself. Re-inventing the wheel can be a thankless task and an arduous one if you have a steep learning curve ahead.
I commend your resilience and tenacity and would like to hear back from you, some time in the future, as to your progress - even if this is to concede that someone else's efforts are more worthy of emulating than carrying on as an individual.
https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino
https://www.libreems.org/
http://www.diyefi.org/
http://freeems.org/
https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
You should also be aware that the OEM will have some very strict legal protections on anyone attempting to reverse-engineer their hardware....
Fortunately there are quite a few similar projects currently under development and with some interesting and exciting prospects for their future.
I would highly recommend you check out the following sites and learn from the process they used to develop their own designs before considering going down this path yourself. Re-inventing the wheel can be a thankless task and an arduous one if you have a steep learning curve ahead.
I commend your resilience and tenacity and would like to hear back from you, some time in the future, as to your progress - even if this is to concede that someone else's efforts are more worthy of emulating than carrying on as an individual.
https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino
https://www.libreems.org/
http://www.diyefi.org/
http://freeems.org/
https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Download this, read it, and if it makes sense you have half a chance with your project.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.476.2011&rep=rep1&type=pdf
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.476.2011&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Thanks for the reply - Speeduino is the one that poped out to me as well. Seriously, a fledgling auto chip bunch of hacking kids enters a hacking for a day contest and this happens - amazing.
An you're right, tenacity is the word - just ask my Dear Ex-Wife - on second thought....
Again, the only reason I wanted an IDing was to just get a handle on any part of the project that would allow me to ask not-so-stupid questions since all development come directly out of my pocket.
Thanks again for the reply - I'll check out the other links you suggested tomorrow, it's crazy late here.
Nite, nite,
Patrick
NMNeil, WOW, what a cool ass document - I think you have sufficiently put me in my place on lack of knowledge - AND, I was just looking at the table of contents....
Seriously, I'll read this over the long weekend - thank you!
Patrick
