DSC wireless problems

[RH.Campbell]

Anybody else out there having the same problems with DSC 433 wireless
equipment that I am ? I have had so many stray signals, unexplainable
triggers, troubles and tamper problems, that I have pretty much decided to
abandon 433 mhz DSC wireless equipment for any new installations. Thes
problems only seem to have come about in the last six months or so, and
makes me wonder if perhaps they might be having some quality control
problems.!!!

I had even quoted an 832 partitioned system using 90% wireless, won the sale
and ended up giving it away to one of my partner companies who handles
Ademco and who is going to put in their wireless equipment. I just couldn't
see putting in equipment for the customer that I can't feel comfortable
standing behind...

I'm going to try the Paradox Omni wireless along with the Spectra panel to
see how this equipment works out. All reports are that it is as good as
their panels...

Comments ?

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

 

[Robert Skinner]

Anybody else out there having the same problems with DSC 433 wireless
equipment that I am ? I have had so many stray signals, unexplainable
triggers, troubles and tamper problems, that I have pretty much decided to
abandon 433 mhz DSC wireless equipment for any new installations. Thes
problems only seem to have come about in the last six months or so, and
makes me wonder if perhaps they might be having some quality control
problems.!!!

I had even quoted an 832 partitioned system using 90% wireless, won the sale
and ended up giving it away to one of my partner companies who handles
Ademco and who is going to put in their wireless equipment. I just couldn't
see putting in equipment for the customer that I can't feel comfortable
standing behind...

I'm going to try the Paradox Omni wireless along with the Spectra panel to
see how this equipment works out. All reports are that it is as good as
their panels...

Comments ?

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

I have had no problems whatsoever with the wireless products in the last six
months. I have only installed about 20 door/window contacts and 6 motions
in that period.

Robert

 

[RH.Campbell]

Ok, thanks Bob, I guess I have just had a run of bad luck then. But it's
enough of a problem that I'm definately going to have a very close look at
the Paradox wireless instead....

Things like this always seem to happen to me for some reason....))

RHC

 

[fly in the ointment]

RH.Campbell wrote

Anybody else out there having the same problems with DSC 433 wireless
equipment that I am ? I have had so many stray signals, unexplainable
triggers, troubles and tamper problems, that I have pretty much decided to
abandon 433 mhz DSC wireless equipment for any new installations. Thes
problems only seem to have come about in the last six months or so, and
makes me wonder if perhaps they might be having some quality control
problems.!!!

snip

I've installed a lot of the 433 stuff, not many problems so far. I prefer
the 900MHz as well, and if I ever meet the person responsible for just
discontinuing it, there may likely be a fight. But I digress...

The only troubles I've had were RF jam detects which caused a false alarm
while the system was armed, and the wireless key continuous EEPROM
programming until destruction debacle. I now turn off jam detect, and have
fixed all the other systems with the DSC utility.

Occasionally there are placement issues which I have been able to resolve.
I hope your troubles are not a preview of things to come, and would like to
know more about the troubles you have had.
js

 

[RH.Campbell]

Yes, if I ever meet the company man that made the decision to discontinue
support for the 900 mhz equipment, after you've finished with him, I will
finish him off for good !!!!!!!!!! For a company not to support their older
gear so soon after discontinuing it, and not being able to get additional
replacement equipment without long delays is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

I follow my gut in a lot of business things, and there's a little voice in
the back of my head that says DSC wireless equipment is heading for trouble.
I haven't had a lot of experience with it, but the little that I've had
tells me that it's not as bulletproof as it should be. I get all sorts of
"5132 tamper" troubles that result in alarms on wireless zones that aren't
even armed when they trip the alarm; all sorts of supervisory troubles on
Skyroute units; all sorts of weird tampers when tampers aren't even
set....and so on...
To me, wireless should completely replace the hard wire - period ! If it
acts any less reliably, then it's simply not acceptable. Perhaps I'm a
little fussier than some since the "customer owns the equipment, but I own
the problems". Service is my problem, so if I put in something that causes
problems, I'm on the hook !!!!

BTW, what is this "DSC utility" that you speak of ?

RHC

 

[Allan Waghalter]

Try the Napco Gemini wireless. I have been using it since it came out and
it performs flawlessly! The range is good, you can use a second receiver if
you need, and they now have a keypad with a built in receiver. The software
is very intuitive and self checking and their customer service is superior
to any manufacturer I have ever called. Your maximum hold time with Napco
is seldom over one or two minute and the staff is knowlegeable.
Allan

| Anybody else out there having the same problems with DSC 433 wireless
| equipment that I am ? I have had so many stray signals, unexplainable
| triggers, troubles and tamper problems, that I have pretty much decided to
| abandon 433 mhz DSC wireless equipment for any new installations. Thes
| problems only seem to have come about in the last six months or so, and
| makes me wonder if perhaps they might be having some quality control
| problems.!!!
|
| I had even quoted an 832 partitioned system using 90% wireless, won the
sale
| and ended up giving it away to one of my partner companies who handles
| Ademco and who is going to put in their wireless equipment. I just
couldn't
| see putting in equipment for the customer that I can't feel comfortable
| standing behind...
|
| I'm going to try the Paradox Omni wireless along with the Spectra panel to
| see how this equipment works out. All reports are that it is as good as
| their panels...
|
| Comments ?
|
| R.H.Campbell
| Home Security Metal Products
| Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
| www.homemetal.com
|
|

 

[Marc]

Weird I have very little problems with the DSC wireless, only problems i
really have are the batterys in the keyfobs go low on customers, but i can
only assume thats from extreme usage.. once in awhile i get tampers, but
usualy all are explained by either the customer knocking it off, or them
changing their own batteries.. i just did a job for someone who specifically
bought their own equipment and just needed help and had 11 wireless
devices.. the only problem i had was that 1 device wouldnt enroll and we
exchanged it for a new one.. maybe your mounting the 5132 in a bad location?
ive had good luck, maybe its on my side <NOT>

Marc

 

[RH.Campbell]

Yes, I hear that Napco gear IS solid stuff. But Napco equipmen is rare
around here. Virtually no one uses it because of the overwhelming presence
of the two Canadian manufacturers - DSC and Paradox - who hold the lions
share of the market (with Ademco a distant third I suspect...).

Wireless pretty much goes with the panel make as well! But thanks for your
comments...

RHC

 

[fly in the ointment]

RH.Campbell wrote

I follow my gut in a lot of business things, and there's a little voice in
the back of my head that says DSC wireless equipment is heading for trouble.
I haven't had a lot of experience with it, but the little that I've had
tells me that it's not as bulletproof as it should be. I get all sorts of
"5132 tamper" troubles that result in alarms on wireless zones that aren't
even armed when they trip the alarm;

The 5132 tampers can be avoided by turning on option 7 in section 90 of the
5132 programming.

all sorts of supervisory troubles on
Skyroute units;

I've not had trouble with the Skyroutes as long as I use an external
antenna, or have a very good signal. (Top light, falling to middle light on
occasion). This means you need a better signal than the manual suggests.

all sorts of weird tampers when tampers aren't even
set....and so on...

On the door/window xmtrs, PIR's, or what?

To me, wireless should completely replace the hard wire - period ! If it
acts any less reliably, then it's simply not acceptable.

I agree, but I suspect there are issues with all brands. I've used
Inovonics, Linear (now there's real crap), and have some experience with
ITI. All have their plusses and minuses.

I Perhaps I'm a
little fussier than some since the "customer owns the equipment, but I own
the problems". Service is my problem, so if I put in something that causes
problems, I'm on the hook !!!!

BTW, what is this "DSC utility" that you speak of ?

It's on the DSC dealer site, on the software page. I assume you have
access?
js

 

[Don von Hollen]

I am in the process of trying out the Allegro Panel I will let you know
what I find out if you want. As for the troubles with the 433 Mhz line from
DSC, I haven't had many problems. The only thing that I have looked at was
the default programming of the 5132 receiver. There are some things that
need to be changed from default for the unit to function properly. I don't
have them right now, but I can post them later for anyone that is
interested.

Has anyone had problems with the wireless keyfob batteries on the 433
Mhz line? I have had a ton of low batteries that have come up within a few
months of installation.

 

[Don von Hollen]

I have had problems with supervisory troubles on Skyroute units, but I
have been told that it is because of a network issue in my area (Alberta)
are you getting fail to communicate troubles as well?

 

[RH.Campbell]

The Paradox boards you mean ? No, made in Montreal

RHC

 

[RH.Campbell]

In my 5132 manual, section 90 is not there...it jumps from 85 to
91..????????

RHC

 

[anomynous]

In my 5132 manual, section 90 is not there...it jumps from 85 to
91..????????

RHC

It's in the older manual. Tech support said it's something that we're not
suppose to play with (phoned tech support when I forgot which address it
was and too cold to go back out to look in manual).

 

[fly in the ointment]

RH.Campbell wrote

In my 5132 manual, section 90 is not there...it jumps from 85 to
91..????????

Look for an option for "RF jam does not initiate trouble"
js

 

[Mark Leuck]

You have an older manual then, DSC's added those sections since, It sounds
like your manual is for a V3 since everything later has those options

 

[RH.Campbell]

The manual that came with the Fixed Icon Keypad is "LCD5501Z32-433NA version
4.1. As far as I know, that is the latest manual, since it came with the
keypad that I just bought within the last week...

Damn....just my crappy luck....

RHC

 

[Reg Siemens]

Robert, perhaps you received old stock. Here's an old tech bulletin that
says that you should be using 4.15 or higher.

<begin paste>
Technical Update #079


Date : June 18, 2002

Re : LCD5501Z32-433 COMBINATION ICON KEYPAD/WIRELESS RECEIVER




We have confirmed that under certain conditions the LCD5501Z32-433 v4.13
Combination Icon Keypad/Wireless Receiver may malfunction and cause the
panel to show a 'General Supervisory Trouble'. In this state, wireless zones
will not function. For this reason, DSC requires all LCD5501Z32-433 v4.13
Combination Keypad/Wireless Receivers to be returned, including units
installed in the field.

Version 4.13 first shipped after May 1, 2002. The version number of the
LCD5501Z-433 can be found on a sticker affixed to the unit's plastic back
plate as well as the carton label.

LCD5501Z32-433 version v4.15 and greater have this issue corrected.

Please contact your local distributor to obtain a v4.15 or greater
replacement unit. The entire PCB must be replaced. New LCD5501Z32-433
modules will have the version printed on the sticker affixed to the unit's
plastic back plate as well as the carton label. Please note the receiver
contains all the wireless programming, so if the receiver is replaced
wireless information must be reprogrammed.


If you have any questions concerning this matter, please call DSC Technical
Support at
(800) 387-3630, or (877) 285-6655 for service in French. We can also be
reached by email at [email protected].

Sincerely,

Harry Scholz
Product Application Specialist, The Americas

<end paste>

 

[RH.Campbell]

Bingo ! I just checked my stock and that IS the problem ! Many thanks
Reg...I owe you one !

This brings to mind a couple of questions...why the hell is that stock still
on the shelves at Tried ? (I bought half a dozen of these combination units
just the other day..) And why the hell didn't someone tell the general alarm
buying wholesale customers about this bulletin ?

This is the sort of crap that I'm coming to expect from DSC / Tried more and
more. After the experimentation I did today with Paradox wireless, I've
decided that I'm going to completely abandon DSC wireless for the obviously
FAR superior Paradox Omni stuff. Works beautifully, programs in the most
slick fashion possible, and is inexpensive as hell !! Damn, they've done it
again !!! (sound of applause in the background......)

PS: Who says hanging around this newsgroup doesn't give you useful
information...!!

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

Robert, perhaps you received old stock. Here's an old tech bulletin that
says that you should be using 4.15 or higher.

<begin paste>
Technical Update #079


Date : June 18, 2002

Re : LCD5501Z32-433 COMBINATION ICON KEYPAD/WIRELESS RECEIVER

We have confirmed that under certain conditions the LCD5501Z32-433 v4.13

Combination Icon Keypad/Wireless Receiver may malfunction and cause the
panel to show a 'General Supervisory Trouble'. In this state, wireless zones
will not function. For this reason, DSC requires all LCD5501Z32-433 v4.13
Combination Keypad/Wireless Receivers to be returned, including units
installed in the field.

...........snip balance............

 

[Reg Siemens]

Against my better judgement I'll share my thoughts...

So let's not restrict this debate to DSC wireless. In my mind, this is not
limited to DSC. We've tried many different brands of wireless systems in
our sixteen years and have yet to find ANY brand that we are comfortable
installing and supporting. The reality is all wireless product - regardless
of brand is:
-more expensive than the hard-wired equivalent
-proprietary in nature and will be obselete and unsupported long before
comparable hard-wired alternatives
-will typically require wholesale replacement of the entire system if system
expansion is required at a future date
-is less attractive because you have the bulk of transmitters at each
protection point
-requires more maintenance because you're regularly changing batteries
-is less reliable - on lots of levels, including jam resistance, RFI, etc.

So what's the upside???
-lick and stick installation for someone with marginal skills and tools
-????

Help me guys on this one cause I just don't get wireless (and no I'm no
relation to a fellow with the initials Paul...). IMHO if there's any chance
of running wires (even if it means surface mount wire-mouldings) JUST DO IT!

Reg Siemens
Tower Security

It's