Different speaker design: (two magnets instead of one, and one electricity direction flow)

[Skybuck Flying]

Hello,

I read about how speakers work, and it appears there is a magnet/coil...
power is put on it... and the flow of power is reserved in quick
succession...

This makes the speakers go up and down/vibrate.

I believe switching/reversing flow of power might be bad for electronics
because of the hammering effect. Or maybe it just tears down the electronics
(?).

So I was thinking about a different design... (which might actually be worse
?) but ok... I am still going to describe it here... in case it's not
worse... and just to figure out if it has ever been tried before.

The idea for a new (?) speaker design goes as follows:

1. Instead of one magnet there would be two magnets.

One magnet to make the speaker go up.
One magnet to make the speaker go down.

2. Instead of reversing the flow of power the following would happen:

One cable to put power on the top magnet.
One cable to put power on the bottom magnet.

3. To make the speaker vibrate the following would happen:

3.1 To make the speaker go up:

Put power on top magnet.
Cut power on bottom magnet.

3.2 To make the speaker go down:

Cut power on top magnet.
Put power on bottom magnet.

This would create the vibrations needed to move the air.

The adventage could be the following:

1. I hope it's much easier to put power and cut power than it is to actually
reverse power ?

(The hope is that this will make the electronics easier, cheaper, less warm
and last longer).

2. Electricity flows into one direction which might prevent hammering ?

(This is where I am not sure... power on and power off... seems a lot like a
water facet going on and off and thus creating hammer effect ? oh-oh )

Point 2 might be why this is a bad idea ?!?

Still I am interested in what you "experts" think of this idea, questions:

1. Has it been tried before ? If so what were the results ?

2. If not would it be possible ?

3. Would it be a good idea ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Using two wires to power such a speaker might become problematic if the
wires are slightly of different lengths.

The on+off pair needs to be synchronized for proper working me thinks

So I shall try to improve this idea by adding a little smartness to the
speaker itself.

Instead of using two wires only one wire is used.

It would now work as follows:

+5 volt would be ON
-5 volt would be OFF

1. On means:

Top magnet power on.
Bottom magnet power off.

2. Off means:

Top magnet power off
Bottom magnet power on.

This would now again create the vibrations necessary to make the air move

5 volt it just an example... could be any voltage as long as it's easy for
the electronics to make a distinct between on and off.

Or actually "up" and "down"

So on could mean "up"
So off could mean "down"



This would now only require one cable which might save some costs ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

However there would still need to be two cables.

Since that's how it normally works a + and a -.

But it can be considered just one cable... "it's a loop"

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

LOL,

What does +5 volt and -5 volt actually mean ?

Does the + mean it flows up ?
Does the - mean it flows down ?

If so then this is not what I would want

Maybe this is better:

+5 volt means up.
+10 volt means down.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Maybe the speed of electricity is so fast... that it's not necessary to
alter my original idea ?

Frequency need to be 20 hz to 20 khz.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Monster Cable will be pleased.

Snicker ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Ok,

From reading this which I have heard of before:

http://www.geocities.com/archisgore/articles/speed_of_electricity.html

It seems that synchronizing is necessary.

Electrons don't really move real fast... the just move out at the end and in
at the front...

Just like the water in the tubes...

So maybe its better to think of the system as water tubes and figure out a
good way to drive the speakers with an imaginery water tube system.

It would be kinda funny if it was possible to drive speakers with water in
reality !

I bet it would probably be possible too...

Maybe it would even be better ?

Tiny little water tubes... with peunametics.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

To make this work here is an idea:

Tiny water tube:

membrane
moveable hammer | |
--------------------------------------
| | | |
--------------------------------------


The speaker is attached to something that's inside the water tube and that
can slightly move.

The other end of the tube is attached to some kind of hammer that's also in
the tube... and that can move forward
and backward.

The hammer starts vibrating by shocking it forward and backward.

So maybe here still magnets required.

So not much difference... except water tubes instead of electrical tubes.

At least this could get rid of electrical/magnetic interference...

However.. what if water becomes warm or cold... or it could even freeze and
burst the cable ?!

Plastic around it would need to be flexible and expand/contract a little bit
without allowing air inside it ?

Air bubbles would probably also be bad ?

Or maybe not...

Maybe instead of water... simply air could be used as well...

an air tube !

Then maybe instead of magnets... warming and cooling the air could be used
to make
the air expand and contract.

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Ok, for the air tube to work it would need an oven

1. Tiny oven.
2. Tiny freezer.

This would heat and cool down the air.

This would send little air/shock waves through the cable.

Alternatively.. the whole cable could work as freezer and oven.. though
that would require some advenced little technology... probably not
possible...

Or maybe there is another warm to make air contract and expand...

However for volume lot's of air need to be expanded and contractor...

So it would need to be quite powerfull.

Maybe looking at air blowers might reveal something interesting

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Optics seem to be all the rage today LOL.

Maybe laser tubes might play a role at producing sound.

The electronics have a powerfull laser which can heat and cool down air...

Then the laser is fired through the cable.. or maybe at the end of the
speaker to heat the air
instantly... and to contract again...

Maybe some special material which heats up and cools down real quickly...

This might be a new idea for a metal/heating speaker

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

This idea seems cool and easy to do:

The speaker has a room with air in it.

Around the air maybe even inside the air is a special material which heats
up and cools down quickly.

A short circuit is created inside the material so it heats up fast... and
cools down fast.

The air quickly explodes and contracts... to produce the necessary
vibrations...

If powerfull enough a membrane might actually not be needed anymore...

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

The stomach of a pig is used to create a contracting and expanding device.

Electricity is put on the stomach to make it expand/contract.

This would drive the speaker

(Or maybe muscles)

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

OHOH....

This suddenly reminds me of anuses !

For the subwoofer the anuses of pigs would be used ! LOL.

Sorry ! =D

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Which would raise the question:

Which kind of animals would make for the best sounding speakers/subwoofers
?!

Ouch lots of animal anus research to do !

I would leave that mission/research up to others to do LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Also maybe the vocal cords could be used...

Ouch !

This would require some kind of device like longs to expand and contract as
well to send enough air passed the vocal cords...

Or maybe the vocal cords are just another way of creating sound by make some
kind of opening that starts vibrating...

This could actually be a totally new kind of sound device... which produces
sound.

Actually not really ofcourse... we have trumpets, flutes... all kind of
devices which produce sound...

But I am guessing that vocal cords and trumpets and flutes and all of that
can only produce a certain kind of sound...

Though there are people that make funny sounds !

So maybe vocal cords can do much more !

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Pim Schaeffer]

Go back and read how speakers work again. You still don't understand it, I'm
afraid. Speakers work because of the laws of magnetism: Like poles repel,
unlike poles attract. You can demonstrate this with two toy magnets. Face
south pole to south pole and the two magnets push each other away. Face north
pole to south pole and they come together with a click. In most speakers,
there is one fixed cylinder-shaped magnet with a hollow cylinder of paper or
some other non magnetic material encircling it. This paper cylinder is glued
to the cone. Around this paper cylinder is wound a number of turns of copper
wire. The audio signal is then applied to this coil. since audio consists of
an alternating current ranging from roughly a 20 Hz frequency, to a 20 KHz
frequency, it causes that coil of wire to turn into an electromagnet which
changes it's polarity many times a second (in response to the music signal
that has been fed to it). As the polarity of the alternating current changes,
the magnetic property of the coil changes as well. If the tone being fed to
the speaker is, say, 400 Hz, then the magnetism of the coil changes from
north to south and back to north again (one complete cycle or Hz) 400 times
in a second. Since the magnet over which the coil has been wound is fixed and
unchanging (called a permanent magnet), The coil (which is glued to the apex
of the cone, remember) is alternately attracted to the permanent magnet and
repelled by it at that same 400 times a second rate. This moves the cone in
and out at that same rate, producing, in the room, the same 400 Hz audible
tone as the electrical signal that was fed to the coil. So, you see the very
principle by which the speaker works DEPENDS upon the fact that electricity
in an audio signal goes in two directions. The "hammer effect" you mention
doesn't happen because the speaker designer has made sure that the coil, when
driven within it's design parameters doesn't bottom out in the magnet well,
so there is NO hammering. This is an extreme simplification, of course, and
there are other factors at work. There are also other ways to make speakers
produce sound such as electrostatic panels and planar magnetic panels and
piezo-electric speakers (usually only used as tweeters), but this is the
basic way that a cone speaker works. So you see, your idea of using two
magnets is based upon the fact that you poorly understand the principles of
physics by which speakers work. I hope this short, tutorial helps.

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Vonkenboer]

TROLL ALERT

Skybuck Flying formuleerde de vraag :

LOL,

What does +5 volt and -5 volt actually mean ?

 

[Skybuck Flying]

I know very well how magnets work I played with them when I was a child

You seem to forget that metal is attracted by magnets too.

So for each magnet there would be some metal.

There could be many different designs.

Here is one example:

magnet - power
/\ up
metal
| |
------------------------- <- membrane
metal
\/ down
magnet
|
power

The metal could just as well be replaced with magnets to make it even more
stronger.

I don't see the problem.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Rich Grise]

So I was thinking about a different design... (which might actually be worse
?) but ok... I am still going to describe it here... in case it's not
worse... and just to figure out if it has ever been tried before.

Just build one, and show us the demo.

Sheesh!
Rich

 

[Paul E. Schoen]

I know very well how magnets work I played with them when I was a child

You seem to forget that metal is attracted by magnets too.

So for each magnet there would be some metal.

There could be many different designs.

Here is one example:

magnet - power
/\ up
metal
| |
------------------------- <- membrane
metal
\/ down
magnet
|
power

The metal could just as well be replaced with magnets to make it even
more stronger.

I don't see the problem.

One major problem is that the speaker cone must move in a controlled manner
which follows a sinusoidal signal. Just applying and removing voltage makes
it move abruptly and then slams to a stop when the metal hits the magnet.

Generally a speaker is most efficient when the mass of its voice coil and
the cone are minimized and cone is rigid enough to move air without
distorting, and the means of holding the cone is very flexible in the
desired direction of movement but not allowed to move laterally which would
misalign the voice coil within the magnet.

It is possible to make a speaker without a permanent magnet, applying
current to an electromagnet as well as the voice coil, which can save some
total weight, but usually you want the frame of the speaker to be as heavy
as possible.

In old radios sometimes the speaker was made with an electromagnet which
was also a filter choke:
http://radioremembered.org/edspeaker.htm

There are also ceramic piezoelectric speakers which are very thin and
lightweight, and use no magnets. See:
http://www.t-yuden.com/news/detail.cfm?id=97

There are electrostatic speakers:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/vanmedevoort150_e.html

There is a moving-iron speaker:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_iron_speaker

Multiple magnetic field speaker:
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080298630

Here are some inventions:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4386332/claims.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7210213.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3824343.html
http://www.patents.com/Coneless-no-moving-parts-speaker/US5335284/en-US/

There is a lot of information in the Wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker

If you understand all of the existing designs, and then have an idea that
you think is better, please present it. Otherwise, you're just smoking some
nasty stuff...

Paul