Counterfeit parts alert on Ebay

[GPE]

Hey guys,

Watch out for seller "goodbuy711" on ebay. He has tons of transistors
listed at inflated prices. And - if you look carefully, you will see that
many, many of them are actually counterfeits.

One example of a counterfeit -- item 220103822371
Doesn't take rocket science to determine that this cannot possibly be a real
Motorola part.

Seems that tons of counterfeit parts are being provided by our 'friends' in
China. And, surprise, goodbuy711 has his parts being shipped from Hong
Kong.

-- Ed

 

[John E.]

Watch out for seller "goodbuy711" on ebay. He has tons of transistors

listed at inflated prices. And - if you look carefully, you will see that
many, many of them are actually counterfeits.

Thanks for the warning.

How can you tell it's counterfeit?

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Thanks for the warning.

How can you tell it's counterfeit?

The date code, I think. 0512 = 12th (working) week in 2005, but Motorola
sold off their semicondutor manufacture, which became ON Semiconductor.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

The date code, I think. 0512 = 12th (working) week in 2005, but Motorola
sold off their semiconductor manufacture, which became ON Semiconductor.

I mean, they sold it in 1998 or 1999. No Motorola branded parts made after
that time.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

The date code, I think. 0512 = 12th (working) week in 2005, but Motorola
sold off their semicondutor manufacture, which became ON Semiconductor.

The bat wing doesn't look quite right either.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[GPE]

The date code, I think. 0512 = 12th (working) week in 2005, but Motorola
sold off their semicondutor manufacture, which became ON Semiconductor.

Exactly. You won't find Motorola transistors made in 2005. The
counterfeiters are so bent on selling new parts (at horrendous prices!) -
they don't bother to look when the manufacturer actually made them.
Previously, he had the same thing with RCA and GE parts -- Nice, new looking
parts, new date codes.... but neither have been making the sort of part in
question in years.

And -- every single one is made in Mexico... the RCA's, the GE's and the
Motorola's.

Yet Ebay doesn't care. Somebody's house will burn down, maybe someone will
get injured...and ebay is complicit.

-- Ed

 

[Eeyore]

Thanks for the warning.

How can you tell it's counterfeit?

It has the Motorola logo on a part that's date coded 0512. (wk 12, 2005)

Motorola long ago sold their discretes manufacturing to On Semiconductor. The
part should marked 'ON' not Motorola.

Graham

 

[Jamie]

Thanks for the warning.

How can you tell it's counterfeit?

When it goes Poof!

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Yet Ebay doesn't care. Somebody's house will burn down, maybe someone
will get injured...and ebay is complicit.

True.

Hello,

Thank you for writing back to us about item that you reported to us.

I can understand your frustration at the item not being removed, and
would like to explain further why we didn't remove it.

First let me reassure you that it's our top priority that eBay remains a
safe and reputable place to shop. We appreciate you taking the time to
send your report and we fully investigate any reports that we receive.

After carefully reviewing this item's description and images we
concluded that the item the seller describes in the listing doesn't
breach eBay policy.

It's clear from your email that you're confident this seller is selling
an item that breaches eBay policy via an apparently innocent listing.
However, since we don't possess or examine any of the items listed for
sale, we can only base our judgement on the information included in the
listing itself.

If you have material proof that this seller has sent or intends to send
an illegal item to a buyer, please don't hesitate to contact the police.
eBay will always fully cooperate with police investigations.

Thank you again for your report and for your help in keeping eBay a safe
place to buy and sell. Please continue to report any listings that you
suspect breach eBay policy.

What else do they need? I had to tell them three times that reporting a
listing number isn't enough. We need a way to tell them what they should be
looking for. Even when it's spelled out explicitly, they don't accept a
picture of a verifiable IMPOSSIBLE component to be meterial evidence!

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Yet Ebay doesn't care. Somebody's house will burn down, maybe
someone will get injured...and ebay is complicit.

True.

Hello,

Thank you for writing back to us about item that you reported to us.

I can understand your frustration at the item not being removed, and
would like to explain further why we didn't remove it.

First let me reassure you that it's our top priority that eBay remains
a safe and reputable place to shop. We appreciate you taking the time
to send your report and we fully investigate any reports that we
receive.

After carefully reviewing this item's description and images we
concluded that the item the seller describes in the listing doesn't
breach eBay policy.

It's clear from your email that you're confident this seller is
selling an item that breaches eBay policy via an apparently innocent
listing. However, since we don't possess or examine any of the items
listed for sale, we can only base our judgement on the information
included in the listing itself.

If you have material proof that this seller has sent or intends to
send an illegal item to a buyer, please don't hesitate to contact the
police. eBay will always fully cooperate with police investigations.

Thank you again for your report and for your help in keeping eBay a
safe place to buy and sell. Please continue to report any listings
that you suspect breach eBay policy.

What else do they need? I had to tell them three times that reporting
a listing number isn't enough. We need a way to tell them what they
should be looking for. Even when it's spelled out explicitly, they
don't accept a picture of a verifiable IMPOSSIBLE component to be
meterial evidence!

Perhaps someone in the US reading this might be willing to go to the police
with this? I'm in the UK, they won't take anything from me, I have no say
in US jurisdiction. It will be far better coming from someone in US
semicondictor manufacturing anyway, after all. It needs to come from
someone who can be considered an expert witness.

 

[GPE]

Yet Ebay doesn't care. Somebody's house will burn down, maybe
someone will get injured...and ebay is complicit.

True.

Hello,

Thank you for writing back to us about item that you reported to us.

I can understand your frustration at the item not being removed, and
would like to explain further why we didn't remove it.

First let me reassure you that it's our top priority that eBay remains
a safe and reputable place to shop. We appreciate you taking the time
to send your report and we fully investigate any reports that we
receive.

After carefully reviewing this item's description and images we
concluded that the item the seller describes in the listing doesn't
breach eBay policy.

It's clear from your email that you're confident this seller is
selling an item that breaches eBay policy via an apparently innocent
listing. However, since we don't possess or examine any of the items
listed for sale, we can only base our judgement on the information
included in the listing itself.

If you have material proof that this seller has sent or intends to
send an illegal item to a buyer, please don't hesitate to contact the
police. eBay will always fully cooperate with police investigations.

Thank you again for your report and for your help in keeping eBay a
safe place to buy and sell. Please continue to report any listings
that you suspect breach eBay policy.

What else do they need? I had to tell them three times that reporting
a listing number isn't enough. We need a way to tell them what they
should be looking for. Even when it's spelled out explicitly, they
don't accept a picture of a verifiable IMPOSSIBLE component to be
meterial evidence!

Perhaps someone in the US reading this might be willing to go to the
police
with this? I'm in the UK, they won't take anything from me, I have no say
in US jurisdiction. It will be far better coming from someone in US
semicondictor manufacturing anyway, after all. It needs to come from
someone who can be considered an expert witness.

The FBI does have a computer fraud department specifically for this. I'm
considering it. They won't go after the seller as he is in Hong Kong. But
they should go after ebay for selling the parts...

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

The FBI does have a computer fraud department specifically for this.
I'm considering it. They won't go after the seller as he is in Hong
Kong. But they should go after ebay for selling the parts...

The listing claims he's in Canada. Only the parts are in Hong Kong. The
part on listing 220103822371 appears to be a counterfeit, and several
people have clear reason to say so. Either the seller is operating via
Canada in some way, in which case he's reachable under Canadian law, or
he's misrepresenting himself on eBay in which case eBay are liable foe
correcting this if the seller won't correct it himself.

I don't know what the Canadian law is on this, if he was claiming to be in
the US, he would be reachable the same way that a UK white-collar criminal
is reachable even if the funny money passes only once, accidentally,
through any US bank.

I suggest take it to the FBI if you think they'll have a look at it. It
definitely looks like bulk fraud, so many US made parts all coming from
Hong Kong. It is a tad circuitous, no? Likely to raise a curious eyebrow, I
think, if nothing else.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

I bet if it were a pair of shoes with a Nike logo on them (but in a
style never made by Nike), or a watch that said Rolex, but that was of
a style never made by Rolex, then it would be down just like that.

Perhaps someone at Motorola could complain, since Motorola still own
the trademark and would probably disagree with people just printing it
on whatever they like.

Regardless of what Ebay are willing to do, the true owners of the
Motorola trade make could take legal action against the seller, and
almost certainly also against Ebay for knowingly assisting the illegal
activity.

Sure, that might work, defence of rights to a logo alone is a big enough
issue. Motorola are big enough to take on Apple if they'd infringed, let
alone eBay.

eBay aren't directly culpable, but I have at least posted written proof
here that they wilfully turn a blind eye no matter how succinctly and
clearly they are told what they should be investigating.

That alone might make some more powerful organisation feel a need to start
to apply pressure of their own. But they won't unless somkeone here close
to them tells them about this.

 

[Chris Jones]

Yet Ebay doesn't care. Somebody's house will burn down, maybe someone
will get injured...and ebay is complicit.

True.

Hello,

Thank you for writing back to us about item that you reported to us.

I can understand your frustration at the item not being removed, and
would like to explain further why we didn't remove it.

First let me reassure you that it's our top priority that eBay remains a
safe and reputable place to shop. We appreciate you taking the time to
send your report and we fully investigate any reports that we receive.

After carefully reviewing this item's description and images we
concluded that the item the seller describes in the listing doesn't
breach eBay policy.

It's clear from your email that you're confident this seller is selling
an item that breaches eBay policy via an apparently innocent listing.
However, since we don't possess or examine any of the items listed for
sale, we can only base our judgement on the information included in the
listing itself.

If you have material proof that this seller has sent or intends to send
an illegal item to a buyer, please don't hesitate to contact the police.
eBay will always fully cooperate with police investigations.

Thank you again for your report and for your help in keeping eBay a safe
place to buy and sell. Please continue to report any listings that you
suspect breach eBay policy.

What else do they need? I had to tell them three times that reporting a
listing number isn't enough. We need a way to tell them what they should
be looking for. Even when it's spelled out explicitly, they don't accept a
picture of a verifiable IMPOSSIBLE component to be meterial evidence!

I bet if it were a pair of shoes with a Nike logo on them (but in a style
never made by Nike), or a watch that said Rolex, but that was of a style
never made by Rolex, then it would be down just like that.

Perhaps someone at Motorola could complain, since Motorola still own the
trademark and would probably disagree with people just printing it on
whatever they like.

Regardless of what Ebay are willing to do, the true owners of the Motorola
trade make could take legal action against the seller, and almost certainly
also against Ebay for knowingly assisting the illegal activity.

Chris

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

The listing claims he's in Canada. Only the parts are in Hong Kong. The
part on listing 220103822371 appears to be a counterfeit, and several
people have clear reason to say so. Either the seller is operating via
Canada in some way, in which case he's reachable under Canadian law, or
he's misrepresenting himself on eBay in which case eBay are liable foe
correcting this if the seller won't correct it himself.

I don't know what the Canadian law is on this, if he was claiming to be in
the US, he would be reachable the same way that a UK white-collar criminal
is reachable even if the funny money passes only once, accidentally,
through any US bank.

I suggest take it to the FBI if you think they'll have a look at it. It
definitely looks like bulk fraud, so many US made parts all coming from
Hong Kong. It is a tad circuitous, no? Likely to raise a curious eyebrow, I
think, if nothing else.

Circuitous? Most likely some dude/ette in Richmond Hill (a heavily
Chinese suburb of Toronto) is selling stuff that one of his/her
relatives in Hong Kong is mailing off. It's really quite
straightforward and logical, aside from the counterfeit aspect (which
the seller may or may not be aware of).

Caveat emptor.

eBay is reluctant to take complaints from non parties to a transaction
seriously, at least in part, because it's common on eBay for
competitors to file false complaints to try to get auctions taken
down.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Circuitous? Most likely some dude/ette in Richmond Hill (a heavily
Chinese suburb of Toronto) is selling stuff that one of his/her
relatives in Hong Kong is mailing off. It's really quite
straightforward and logical, aside from the counterfeit aspect (which
the seller may or may not be aware of).

True, but a lot of unused US made parts ending up for sale in China is a
little odd. They'd probably have a higher value in Chinese manufacturing
to raise the value for sales. Most of China is busting a gut shipping raw
stuff IN, including scrap metal from across the world, not shipping it out
in the original form to the places it came from. The seller might not have
known about this specific counterfeit, but probably does now, so hopefully
those parts might stop appearing.

Caveat emptor.

Only up to a point. Once stuff starts to fail in an incendiary display that
kind of waiver cuts no ice at all, and the buck gets passed forcibly right
back up the chain.

eBay is reluctant to take complaints from non parties to a transaction
seriously, at least in part, because it's common on eBay for
competitors to file false complaints to try to get auctions taken
down.

That's true, but citing specific evidence or impossible date codes on a
phot of a part isn't exactly open to 'interpretaion'. It either is, or is
not a fake. If it can be verified as an impossible code then it doesn't
matter who says it to them. The fact that it does just means someone with
serious clout is going to have to tell them again until it sticks.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

True, but a lot of unused US made parts ending up for sale in China is a
little odd. They'd probably have a higher value in Chinese manufacturing
to raise the value for sales. Most of China is busting a gut shipping raw
stuff IN, including scrap metal from across the world, not shipping it out
in the original form to the places it came from. The seller might not have
known about this specific counterfeit, but probably does now, so hopefully
those parts might stop appearing.

Have you not noticed the guy from Hong Kong who's always trying to
offer grey market/surplus parts here?

If prices are enough higher here than there, it makes sense.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Have you not noticed the guy from Hong Kong who's always trying to
offer grey market/surplus parts here?

If prices are enough higher here than there, it makes sense.

As it always would, but the quantities are low. Most of the Chinese output
to the west in raw parts is more in the form of a promise, like those
Google returns that swamp a page with useless numbers and nothing else.

There are savvy dealers who buy modest bulk end of line stuff when
designers see it flagged as imminently obsolete and stop buying. The price
falls at this point. Then it rises later as spares are wanted for repair of
existing equipment and the original source dries up. That's just good
sense, taking advantage of an opportunity like that.

It's not the same though if you suddenly see clear evidence of faking, or
of a larger number of parts than the original stockists had remaining at
the time they were discontinued. Which means those best able to handle the
counterfeit problem are those who made and supplied the originals. No-one
else has the ability to account for the original flow of parts, so no-one
else is in a better position to establish where and when there is a
problem.

If the original makers decide to turn their backs on good parts and stop
making them, or even bothering to do basic inventory counts and keep
records of past sales, they only have themselves to blame if they find they
can't identify a counterfeit problem.

 

[Eeyore]

The listing claims he's in Canada. Only the parts are in Hong Kong.

In all probability that simply means the seller in Hong Kong lied when setting
up the account.

Attempts to communicate with ebay tend to be frustrated by their use of bots to
answer emails. I doubt very many are ever read by a human.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Perhaps someone at Motorola could complain, since Motorola still own the
trademark and would probably disagree with people just printing it on
whatever they like.

Regardless of what Ebay are willing to do, the true owners of the Motorola
trade make could take legal action against the seller, and almost certainly
also against Ebay for knowingly assisting the illegal activity.

Unfortunately, Motorola no longer have any interest in discretes so simply may
not be interested. It's probably more damaging to ON but they don't have the
rights to the name I presume so there's no offence they can complain about.

Graham