Could defeating LIDAR speed detection be THIS easy ?

[32Vwasbetteronboats]

Modifying the vehicle to deflect, absorb or jumble the signal is likely to be ineffective as it is the registration plate that is targeted...

It seems to me that if the license plate itself was made to oscillate it would make this method of speed detection totally ineffective.

Everyone who has gone through the car stereo phase of there lives knows that if you system is kick ass your license plates are rattling.

Here is something that's fun to mess with "Online Tone Generator" Simply enter your desired frequency and press play. The tone generator can play four different waveforms: Sine, Square, Sawtooth and Triangle. Click on the buttons to select which waveform you would like to generate. http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

I am playing with it right now and I can see my stereo speakers moving back and forth and I would guess that if I aimed a laser speed gun at the center of my speaker it would tell me how fast it is advancing or retreating.

Photonicinduction !

It just seems too easy, 1000s of people should have thought of this yet all I see for sale online is covers and sprays to obscure the license plate from the laser, why would oscillating your license plates not defeat LIDAR speed detection ?

 

[Alec_t]

Don't know what the Florida laws are, but in many jurisdictions what you propose would probably be illegal. I doubt it would work, because the number plate vibration speed would be superimposed on the vehicle speed and the average would be simply the vehicle speed. The lidar may well incorporate filtering anyway, for interference suppression, so would sense the short-term average speed.
But why would you want to defeat the lidar? You're a law-abiding citizen, aren't you? Speed limits are there for a reason; the safety of road users.

 

[32Vwasbetteronboats]

But why would you want to defeat the lidar? You're a law-abiding citizen, aren't you? Speed limits are there for a reason; the safety of road users.

The annual fatality rate on the Autobahn is 2.7 per billion kilometers traveled. The United States has a 4.5 fatality rate for the same distance and highly controlled speeds to boot.

And why should my modern well maintained sports car be subject to the same speed limits as a 30 year old minivan or box van with worn tires worn ball joints blown shock absorbers and drum brakes... ?

Don't know what the Florida laws are, but in many jurisdictions what you propose would probably be illegal. I doubt it would work, because the number plate vibration speed would be superimposed on the vehicle speed and the average would be simply the vehicle speed. The lidar may well incorporate filtering anyway, for interference suppression, so would sense the short-term average speed.

What if we throw chaos at it ?

Chaos theory concerns deterministic systems whose behavior can in principle be predicted. Chaotic systems are predictable for a while and then 'appear' to become random.[3] The amount of time that the behavior of a chaotic system can be effectively predicted depends on three things: How much uncertainty we tolerate in the forecast, how accurately we can measure its current state, and a time scale depending on the dynamics of the system, called the Lyapunov time. Some examples of Lyapunov times are: chaotic electrical circuits, about 1 millisecond; weather systems, a few days (unproven); the solar system, 50 million years. In chaotic systems, the uncertainty in a forecast increases exponentially with elapsed time. Hence, mathematically, doubling the forecast time more than squares the proportional uncertainty in the forecast. This means, in practice, a meaningful prediction cannot be made over an interval of more than two or three times the Lyapunov time. When meaningful predictions cannot be made, the system appears random https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

A car is already vibrating, pistons driveshafts tires out of balance ...

Average would work on speed detecting a helicopter as the speed of the advancing and retreating blades average out to the overall speed of it.

I don't know I'm stuck. But average should be beatable.

 

[davenn]

A car is already vibrating, pistons driveshafts tires out of balance ...

but it isn't specifically moving the licence plate back and forward as you were suggesting

as Alec said, the resultant effect of your method is self cancelling

 

[Alec_t]

And why should my modern well maintained sports car be subject to the same speed limits as a 30 year old minivan or box van with worn tires worn ball joints blown shock absorbers and drum brakes... ?

Because if it hits a pedestrian or other vehicle at Xmph it will cause the same damage .

 

[32Vwasbetteronboats]

but it isn't specifically moving the licence plate back and forward as you were suggesting

as Alec said, the resultant effect of your method is self cancelling

Wouldn't air pressure cause the retreat to be faster then the advance and mess up the average ?

 

[Alec_t]

Unless you're changing the oscillation frequency the average would remain the same.
Besides, how do you know that the lidar (as distinct from a vehicle recognition system) is targeting the license plate? The back or front of the car as a whole is a much easier target to detect.

 

[Bluejets]

The back or front of the car as a whole is a much easier target to detect.

As would a thermal image of the nut at the steering wheel.

 

[32Vwasbetteronboats]

Unless you're changing the oscillation frequency the average would remain the same.
Besides, how do you know that the lidar (as distinct from a vehicle recognition system) is targeting the license plate? The back or front of the car as a whole is a much easier target to detect.

www.google.com/search?q=lidar+license+plate from what I could find the reflective plate is what makes it most effective.

"The LIDAR system is extremely accurate due to the fact that in order for the gun to read a vehicle's speed, the laser it emits must be aimed directly at the driver's license plate," Gresham said. http://www.malmstrom.af.mil/News/Features/Display/Article/825542/lidar-systems-back-at-malmstrom

Look at this

"It is possible to legally beat the police speed radar and/or lidar by spinning a wheel of mirrors on top of the car slower than the actual speed of your car.
partly busted
Tory’s “Wheel of Death” actually tricked the radar into thinking the car was going one or two miles per hour slower, but not enough to help. The device itself was highly impractical. Unlike the rear-view mirror attachments, the roof mounted device was actually not illegal.http://mythresults.com/episode18 "

That is similar to my idea of moving the reflective surface.

More http://www.quattro123.com/Stalker.htm

 

[32Vwasbetteronboats]

If anyone gets this to work and makes several million dollars selling a gadget online based on my idea be nice and send me a small percentage, thanks.

 

[(*steve*)]

The annual fatality rate on the Autobahn is 2.7 per billion kilometers traveled. The United States has a 4.5 fatality rate for the same distance and highly controlled speeds to boot.

An interesting argument. You feel you should be able to drive faster in an environment that is less safe!

 

[CDRIVE]

The only thing (and this is really unlikely) that resonating the tag could possibly do is slightly modulate the LIDAR carrier.
BTW....Since you're so certain that it must target the tags please explain how they're doing that when we don't have front tags in Florida. maybe my Grandson knows. He's a Troop Captain with the FHP. I think he'd be happy to help you.

Personally... (and it's not my decision to make) I think this topic should be closed and locked. This is not what we do here. I suggest you find another forum with,..uh.. like minds. They certainly are not here on EP.

Chris

 

[davenn]

Personally... (and it's not my decision to make) I think this topic should be closed and locked. This is not what we do here. I suggest you find another forum with,..uh.. like minds. They certainly are not here on EP.

we are not really in the business of helping people break the law

that is sage advice and on that note

thread closed