Converting 2.4Ghz ---> 63Mhz Serious Concerns.

[johan greene]

Hello and thanks in advance to all that read this!

ok. i am attempting to convert 2.4ghz wifi signal to 63mhz and then receive the same signal intact. i have a pretty good basic understanding of what im doing but im definatly going to need some oversight on this. here is what i have put together so far.
2.4ghz is just a radio frequency like any other signal. it is modulated by frequency? i assume all radio signals in use today are frequency modulated? so simple as using this?

TRF370417:
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...GAEpiMZZMswyCOIqqEmeyCaKO31ZSEQH%2bUEn/krzJ8=

output frequency range is good. input range im not sure? ive looked into a few of these. they all say they use a baseband signal? ugh. read about baseband signals. still unclear. does not seem to be refering to inputing a 2.4ghz signal. sounded more like a 0mhz signal or close to. ya need help there for sure. initial thought is can i first convert 2.4 into a baseband signal? either way this is the path im starting down and would really love someone to save me from godless amounts of study. if you see a cost realistic alternative to the path im taking would love to hear that as well! thank you, thank you.

 

[Harald Kapp]

i have a pretty good basic understanding of what im doing

Frankly spoken: I doubt that very much.

• What kind of 2.4 GHz signal are you going to use?
• Talking about WiFi means anything but FM, see here.
• The TRF 370417 is a modulator, not a demodulator. You'll have to demulate the 2.4 GHz signal first, which will give you the baseband signal (or signals in case of quadrature modulation). Yo may then use to modulate this onto a new carrier in the 63MHz range using e.g. the TRF370417.

would really love someone to save me from godless amounts of study

That's where you can learn the most.

Unless we know a bit more detail about your project we can't really help you much.

 

[johan greene]

wow thanks for being all like that. apreciate it! you have no clue what kind of understanding i do or dont have. pretty sure of that. i stated clearly i want to convert a 2.4ghz WIFI signal! to a 63mhz signal. receive it and then convert agian to 2.4... im not sure what the TRF is or isnt. im trying to learn that! it said in the description it was a Modulator / Demodulator 50MHz to 6.0 GHz Quadrature. i assumed that meant both! sometimes simply reading about something isnt good enough ya know? as you said. this isnt going to be enough. how would i know without some help from someone that does? you ever get in something and drive it without asking someone whos done it before first? as for the learning i dont want/need that would be hours spent learning about these devices. simply to find out im up the wrong tree. got me? ok wifi is mimo-ofdm modulation. thank you for that tid bit. you coulda just said that and yes i would have understood! now please if you do know more then me stop finding a way to put me down and help. i could use it

 

[johan greene]

let me just please ask you this. i understand what your saying i need to demodulate first giving multiple baseband signals. still not fully understanding the diference between modulation and frequency. i thought modulation was how the wave acted. fm. up and down. am more and less. the shape of the wave in one i seen. phase modulation maybe? idk either way i think my first flaw is not fully understanding modulation. i read about just modulation and not any one type like fm or am. things im familiar with. its any manipulation. that could include changing the range of hz. power strength. wave form. am i getting closer? if so can mimo-ofdm be demodulated by this chip. i know you said it cannot. just wanna be sure it does say de-mod in the description. is there a better ic for this task. and now for the big question if i get it demodulated. hit the TRF370417 to its input. it puts out the 63mhz im still in the weeds. will it put out a mimo-ofdm modulated signal? thinking at this point. if it does i should have no problem agian demodulating 63mhz to baseband and out to 2.4ghz mimo all that? im still unclear about baseband freq. too.

"In terms of bandwidth, baseband is the highest frequency (measured in hertz) used by the bandwidth, or the upper bound of the bandwidth. In terms of a channel, baseband is a type of communication channel that uses frequencies that are very close to zero hertz."

that is not registering in my little head either...

 

[duke37]

This is all way beyond my comfort zone even though I have been playing with electronics for 60 years.

I do know however that you will hardly get any information with 63mHz.

 

[johan greene]

well thats a shame. if your concern is contributing to an fcc violation. fear not. i dont plan to use this device. i simply want to have the knowledge of how to set this up in case i ever need to! i feel this information could be quite usefull to myself and others. i mean i have no problem with the current setup or laws of communications but what if i wasnt? get my point?

 

[Harald Kapp]

you have no clue what kind of understanding i do or dont have.

Right, we haven't, But from what you tell us, you're lacking a considerable part of what's required. This is not to disencourage you, but boasting with knowledge you don't have will not get you along.
As you state yourself:

still not fully understanding the diference between modulation and frequency.

i read about just modulation and not any one type like fm or am.

Modulation is much more than just AM or FM. Modulation generally is the impression of a signal carrying information onto a carrier (typically with a much higher frequency than the signal carryingthe information). Modulation can be done in lots of ways, AM, FM or even quadrature modulation being only a few examples of possible modulation schemes.

if so can mimo-ofdm be demodulated by this chip

MIMO is not a kind of modulation, MIMO is a schem to transmit several streams of modulated signals simultaneously over more than one way (Multiple Input Multiple Output). The sender sends data via multiple streams, the receiver receives these streams and decides which one to use according to quality parameters like signal strength, error rate etc. The receiver may even combine data from several streams to improve reception (reduce error rate).

it said in the description it was a Modulator / Demodulator

Don't trust the PR information on the seller's website. look into the datasheet. It clearly states: 'TRF370417 50-MHz to 6-GHz Quadrature Modulator', nothing is mentioned about demodulation.

im still unclear about baseband freq. too.

Look it up.

Still not clear what you want to achieve and why.

Btw: it's GHz and MHz, not ghz and mhz (the latter being milliHertz really will not transmit a lot of information per second).

 

[johan greene]

 

[Harald Kapp]

Image is not showing here.

 

[johan greene]

not sure if you can see that. i cant. posted it to google so you could. um sorry if you took me saying i had a pretty good basic understanding was boasting. 20 years in communications felt it was fair to say i had i fair BASIC understanding. im trying to learn how to do this in case i ever want to. seems ohhhhh ok i think im getting what your asking why change the freq....? right? ok um lower frequencies attenuate much less. go farther. many want long range setups. this is my idea. and ya plz help you seem to be able?

 

[johan greene]

but ya basicaly this is my attempt to connect 2.4 gear at super long range. if we can get past the initial setup there of course will be other questions like will i still be able to transfer a reasonable amount of data. can i increase the bandwidth to compensate. stuff like that. i was already aware of what mimo was somewhat. what it does and how it helps. but the orthogonal frequency division multiplexing. the ofdm part. fancy word but i got the impression it might be frequency manipulation... modulation. and yes i think i understand that part better. but ya if its not the type of modulation of wifi, 2.4ghz. what is? i read from the link you gave me and it said it was this type of modulation. mimo-ofdm. if its not that. ya plz do tell. stop saying read. i need your help!

 

[Harald Kapp]

Where you live, is 63 MHz a license free band that you can use? I can't find useful information to that end.

Your best bet is:
- Get a commercial 2.4 GHz router for both ends of your long range transmission link.
- Get long range intemediate communication pair (e.g. based on biber optic or lower frequency radio).
- Connect theone router to one end of the long range transmission, the other router to the other end
- Setup the device parameters such that the routers efffectively create a long range WiFinetwork.

Alternatively: use a long range 2.4 GHz WiFi antenna. You can buy one (or e.g. here) or make one yourself.

 

[johan greene]

the link must be wireless. alot of questions still unanswered. anyone care to help me?

 

[Harald Kapp]

Get long range intemediate communication pair (e.g. based on biber optic or lower frequency radio).

lower frequency radio is wireless...

 

[(*steve*)]

One problem you will face is that 2.4GHz WiFi has a bandwidth of several MHz.

Trying to modulate a 63MHz carrier with a signal having that sort of bandwidth is going to cause you a world of pain.

If your problem is distance, then Harald is spot on. With the right antennas, 50mW from a standard WiFi access point can achieve terrestrial line of sight distances (I.e. To the horizon). Do you need to go further than that? I have had a relatively short distance (20km) WiFi link running from my home to another location -- I dismantled it maybe 10 years ago. These days the long distance linked are using 5GHz, and are much faster (and simpler, you just plug in a network cable).

There are many, many people doing this all over the world. It is a solved problem. Google "wa freenet" for one example.

 

[johan greene]

"Get long range intemediate communication pair (e.g. based on biber optic or lower frequency radio)."

and fiber optics are not! and you refer to seting up lower frequency radio as the backbone as if that is somehow not exactly what im trying to do here?

steve,

im guessing your setup includes a parabolic. not nearly as good. i am curious though.

"One problem you will face is that 2.4GHz WiFi has a bandwidth of several MHz.
Trying to modulate a 63MHz carrier with a signal having that short of bandwidth is going to cause you a world of pain."

you say a bandwidth that short? im kinda lost. i thought bandwidth was either narrow or wide. as if looking down the waveform. even if you meant narrow/short. i was under the assumption that wifi would be a broadband signal 20mhz wide.and if your able please explain why this would be hard.

so far. a few have commented like they have the ability to help. not one single usefull answer given. seems like some really fussy folks im dealing with here. anyone smart enough to tackle this challenge and actually provide use full answers please please do!

 

[duke37]

Short was obviously a typo for sort.

If you want to get some feeling for bandwidth, then log in to the secret nuclear bunker SDR radio where the output of some amateur bands is shown on a waterfall display. You can see the difference beween morse, RTTY, single sideband (upper and lower), standard AM and over the horizon radar. These would all be called narrow band but vary by a hundred to one.
See hackgreenSDR.org

You are still talking about an absurdly narrow bandwidth.

 

[davenn]

wow thanks for being all like that. apreciate it! you have no clue what kind of understanding i do or dont have. pretty sure of that.

well it was pretty obvious to Harald and also to me that you really don't have any idea what you are doing or the technology involved to attempt what you want to do

firstly WHY do you want to go down from 2.4GHz to 63 MHz and then back up.
secondly it's not going to happen anyway as you don't have the bandwidth at 63 MHz to do what you want


Dave

 

[Arouse1973]

So am I right, you want to send WIFI data longer distance by using a lower frequency? Why choose 63 MHz?
Thanks
Adam

 

[davenn]

This thread isn't going to go anywhere
the OP shows a complete lack of understanding of what is required and it's just wasting our time trying to explain the impracticalities of his plan