Woo-Woo Comparing true DC and AC electrical power?

[magnetman12003]

Hi,

I have made an new type of generator device that uses 6 volts dc to power it and it puts out at present 120 volts AC. Hope to boost the output 120 volts to 300. At that point I will compare the DC input power ( volts x current) to the AC output power which has a very hi frequency. Just how do I go about doing this so I have a accurate power measurement of both DC in and AC out power?

Do I need a true RMS multimeter to do this?

Your help will be most appreciated.

Thanks, Tom

 

[Resqueline]

Multimeters, even if true-RMS, are accurate only up to a limited number of kHz.
If you are running in the 100's of kHz then you might need some RF-gear to do measurements.

 

[magnetman12003]

Multimeters, even if true-RMS, are accurate only up to a limited number of kHz.
If you are running in the 100's of kHz then you might need some RF-gear to do measurements.

Looks like I will also have to buy a tachometer and that will tell me how fast my power magnet is spinning.. Its easy then to determine the AC frequency which I dont think will be 100's of thousands of kHz. Here is a link to view my generator device on U tube. Hope it works

Thanks, Tom

 

[(*steve*)]

Having looked at your video, I would expect the frequency to be quite low. The sound coming from that spinning magnet does not suggest that it's doing the tens of millions of RPM required for hundreds of KHz. More like the hundreds required for under 10Hz.

Are you trying to determine how efficient this is? I'd estimate that you'd be looking at around 10%, i.e. the output power is a tenth of the input power.

edit: I've assumed the central core has just 2 poles. If it has more, the frequency may be higher. The flashing of the light suggests it is quite a lot lower.

As a crude measure of efficiency, try shorting the output while measuring the input current. If it changes dramatically your device may be more efficient than I think. If it is less than a couple of percent, it may be less efficient than I think.

 

[55pilot]

Are you under the impression that you are getting more energy out than you are putting in?

---55p

 

[magnetman12003]

Having looked at your video, I would expect the frequency to be quite low. The sound coming from that spinning magnet does not suggest that it's doing the tens of millions of RPM required for hundreds of KHz. More like the hundreds required for under 10Hz.

Are you trying to determine how efficient this is? I'd estimate that you'd be looking at around 10%, i.e. the output power is a tenth of the input power.

edit: I've assumed the central core has just 2 poles. If it has more, the frequency may be higher. The flashing of the light suggests it is quite a lot lower.

As a crude measure of efficiency, try shorting the output while measuring the input current. If it changes dramatically your device may be more efficient than I think. If it is less than a couple of percent, it may be less efficient than I think.

Hi, I did take a AC voltage reading while the lamp was in the circuit lit full bright. The lamp stayed that way and the AC voltage measured 75 volts with the lamp as a load. The Bedini - Davro motor circuit will not allow the DC input CURRENT to go high. Current stays in the milliamp range all the time regardless.

 

[magnetman12003]

Are you under the impression that you are getting more energy out than you are putting in?

---55p

Thats wishfull thinking at this point of generator development. When I reach 300 volts AC harvested from ONE SPINNING MAGNET then I will accurately compare electrical power in verses electrical power out. I am not there yet. Having a lot of fun along the way.

Tom

 

[(*steve*)]

Thats wishfull thinking

It certainly is.

Magnetman, on this board we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

 

[55pilot]

Thats wishfull thinking at this point of generator development.

That is wishful thinking at all points of any project. Laws of physics and thermodynamics do not grant exemptions, no matter how smart you are.

---55p

 

[magnetman12003]

That is wishful thinking at all points of any project. Laws of physics and thermodynamics do not grant exemptions, no matter how smart you are.

---55p

All present laws are man made and discovered one by one. I like to think outside the box and maybe just by spinning a magnet using a little power I can harvest the larger power of the magnet ITSELF.

Example
:
Everyone knows what causes a hydrogen bomb explosion. First a little blasting cap explodes, Dynamite is triggered by that, Then an atomic explosion which triggers a hydrogen explosion follows. All done in a eye blink. All laws are not violated in this case but there is an end result.

 

[(*steve*)]

Your example does not illustrate a violation of the law of thermodynamics, perpetual motion devices do.

I *strongly* urge you to measure the output power of your device and compare it with the input power. As soon as you do, you will find that the output power is only a tiny fraction of the input power.

We're quite happy to help you achieve that result (i.e. of measuring the input and output power), but please try to respect the fact that we consider perpetual motion machines to be a foolhardy endeavour.

If you can refrain from making what we consider outrageous claims, then we will refrain from making remarks you may feel are offensive.

In direct answer to your question, a true RMS reading meter would almost certainly be appropriate as the frequency is likely to be quite low, but I would suggest that you drive a purely resistive load (i.e. a resistor) that will make the calculation of output power far easier.

I would imagine that the voltage produced would be inversely proportional to the current you draw. To double the voltage, double the number of turns or halve the current. Ensuring the coil is closer to the poles of the magnet will improve efficiency even more.

 

[magnetman12003]

All present laws are man made and discovered one by one. I like to think outside the box and maybe just by spinning a magnet using a little power I can harvest the larger power of the magnet ITSELF.

Example
:
Everyone knows what causes a hydrogen bomb explosion. First a little blasting cap explodes, Dynamite is triggered by that, Then an atomic explosion which triggers a hydrogen explosion follows. All done in a eye blink. All laws are not violated in this case but there is an end result.

I now realize it was a mistake on my part to tell anyone what I am working on. What I first asked was a simple electronic question.That was never fully addressed. I never once made any claims about anything violating any laws. Nor was I offended by any replys to my question. Having said this I wish you all the best and so long.

 

[(*steve*)]

What I first asked was a simple electronic question.That was never fully addressed.

Resqueline answered your basic question in the first reply.

I observed (based on your video) that the frequency would not be high enough to be a concern.

I pointed out that more turns would increase the voltage.

I gave instructions that would easily allow you to measure the output power.

I suggested that having the magnet closer to the wires would improve efficiency.

What more could you want?

 

[neon]

why worry about true RMS out of a converter did you ever look at the output with a scope? is anything but a true sine wave But the frequency is there