charging one battery from another (using a charge controller, natch)

[[email protected]]

I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have
a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should have
an
internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage the
charging.

Find a suitable battery or stack of cells, and plug it in. Simple.

Using AA cells in an product like Belkin's iPod charger is an
example.
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8E464-Backup-Battery-Pack/dp/B00009KAPW
Recharging your cell phone from your car's 12V battery could be an
example. Emergency power for a cell phone would be an example.
Instances of externally powering the dead device, without
significantly
charging its battery, would be interesting as well.

I'm looking for specific instances of products, or of people doing
this
themselves and making the suggestion to others. One caveat, these
instances have to be during the 1990s or before. Sorry! That
rules
out Belkin and their AA-cell holder, since Apple introduced the iPod
in
2002 and they brought out their product sometime later.

 

[Joerg]

I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have
a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should have
an
internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage the
charging.

Find a suitable battery or stack of cells, and plug it in. Simple.

Using AA cells in an product like Belkin's iPod charger is an
example.
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8E464-Backup-Battery-Pack/dp/B00009KAPW
Recharging your cell phone from your car's 12V battery could be an
example. Emergency power for a cell phone would be an example.
Instances of externally powering the dead device, without
significantly
charging its battery, would be interesting as well.

I'm looking for specific instances of products, or of people doing
this
themselves and making the suggestion to others. One caveat, these
instances have to be during the 1990s or before. Sorry! That
rules
out Belkin and their AA-cell holder, since Apple introduced the iPod
in
2002 and they brought out their product sometime later.

Prior art search for a patent tussle?

I remember a guy in Germany who had this setup around 1987/88: Mobile
phone in his car. Back then mobile phones were "mobile" but not really
portable unless you were a weight lifter. So, since he had to inspect
construction on high rises he had another phone in his car. That one was
a wireless phone just like most of us have at home. Only talks to its
base. This base in turn was linked to his mobile phone in the car.

The handset came with a cradle that had a 12V cigarette lighter plug and
it was definitely some NiCd current limit scheme. Else the handset would
have exploded I guess. The cradle was meant to be bolted to the dash and
the phone clicked into it so it wouldn't fly about after hitting a
pothole. Supposedly you could leave it on the charger indefinitely. Of
course this guy didn't since he wanted his car to start after a few days
of parking. Also, he was a smoker and needed that cigarette lighter once
in a while ;-)

I just don't remember who made this stuff. He had it installed at some
pro-shop and it was a major European mobile phone brand.

 

[Joerg]

Another idea: I have also seen radios in charger cradles which were
mounted on fire trucks. Probably 24V and IIRC the brand was Hagenuk
(Europe). Early 80's.

 

[john jardine]

[...]

I remember a guy in Germany who had this setup around 1987/88: Mobile
phone in his car. Back then mobile phones were "mobile" but not really
portable unless you were a weight lifter. So, since he had to inspect
construction on high rises he had another phone in his car. That one was
a wireless phone just like most of us have at home. Only talks to its
base. This base in turn was linked to his mobile phone in the car.

The handset came with a cradle that had a 12V cigarette lighter plug and
it was definitely some NiCd current limit scheme. Else the handset would
have exploded I guess. The cradle was meant to be bolted to the dash and
the phone clicked into it so it wouldn't fly about after hitting a
pothole. Supposedly you could leave it on the charger indefinitely. Of
course this guy didn't since he wanted his car to start after a few days
of parking. Also, he was a smoker and needed that cigarette lighter once
in a while ;-)

I just don't remember who made this stuff. He had it installed at some
pro-shop and it was a major European mobile phone brand.

Yes. We had a Motorola 4800x in about '86. Battery powered luggable phone
but with a 12V cigar lighter adapter for car charging. Vague memories of the
battery pack being NiCad.

 

[Winfield Hill]

[...]

I remember a guy in Germany who had this setup around 1987/88: Mobile
phone in his car. Back then mobile phones were "mobile" but not really
portable unless you were a weight lifter. So, since he had to inspect
construction on high rises he had another phone in his car. That one was
a wireless phone just like most of us have at home. Only talks to its
base. This base in turn was linked to his mobile phone in the car.

The handset came with a cradle that had a 12V cigarette lighter plug and
it was definitely some NiCd current limit scheme. Else the handset would
have exploded I guess. The cradle was meant to be bolted to the dash and
the phone clicked into it so it wouldn't fly about after hitting a
pothole. Supposedly you could leave it on the charger indefinitely. Of
course this guy didn't since he wanted his car to start after a few days
of parking. Also, he was a smoker and needed that cigarette lighter once
in a while ;-)

I just don't remember who made this stuff. He had it installed at some
pro-shop and it was a major European mobile phone brand.

Yes. We had a Motorola 4800x in about '86. Battery powered luggable phone
but with a 12V cigar lighter adapter for car charging. Vague memories of the
battery pack being NiCad.

Do you know if the charging-control circuitry was in the lighter
adapter or in the phone itself?

These days in a way it's in both, thatis the car adapter regulates
the voltage down to about 6 volts and the phone controls charging
to its battery from the 6-volt power from the adapter. A Belkin
adapter I looked at current limits at 125mA, but others go all the
way to 600mA, etc., providing high currents like the phone's
regular ac-line charger / power adapter.

 

[Joerg]

[...]

I remember a guy in Germany who had this setup around 1987/88: Mobile
phone in his car. Back then mobile phones were "mobile" but not really
portable unless you were a weight lifter. So, since he had to inspect
construction on high rises he had another phone in his car. That one was
a wireless phone just like most of us have at home. Only talks to its
base. This base in turn was linked to his mobile phone in the car.

The handset came with a cradle that had a 12V cigarette lighter plug and
it was definitely some NiCd current limit scheme. Else the handset would
have exploded I guess. The cradle was meant to be bolted to the dash and
the phone clicked into it so it wouldn't fly about after hitting a
pothole. Supposedly you could leave it on the charger indefinitely. Of
course this guy didn't since he wanted his car to start after a few days
of parking. Also, he was a smoker and needed that cigarette lighter once
in a while ;-)

I just don't remember who made this stuff. He had it installed at some
pro-shop and it was a major European mobile phone brand.

Yes. We had a Motorola 4800x in about '86. Battery powered luggable phone
but with a 12V cigar lighter adapter for car charging. Vague memories of the
battery pack being NiCad.

Do you know if the charging-control circuitry was in the lighter
adapter or in the phone itself?

These days in a way it's in both, thatis the car adapter regulates
the voltage down to about 6 volts and the phone controls charging
to its battery from the 6-volt power from the adapter. A Belkin
adapter I looked at current limits at 125mA, but others go all the
way to 600mA, etc., providing high currents like the phone's
regular ac-line charger / power adapter.

There definitely were simpler devices with the limiting circuitry in the
device itself. I had one as a kid, a rechargeable flashlight. It could
be plugged into the cigarette lighter of a car which has no limit other
than its fuse. This was at least 30 years ago which unfortunately also
means that I don't have it anymore. But of course I opened it back then.
There was one resistor and a tiny bridge rectifier which explained why
the packing slip said it could also be used on cars with plus on the
chassis (they existed back then). Also, both 6V and 12V was allowed.
Very handy around the campground.

 

[john jardine]

Do you know if the charging-control circuitry was in the lighter
adapter or in the phone itself?

These days in a way it's in both, thatis the car adapter regulates
the voltage down to about 6 volts and the phone controls charging
to its battery from the 6-volt power from the adapter. A Belkin
adapter I looked at current limits at 125mA, but others go all the
way to 600mA, etc., providing high currents like the phone's
regular ac-line charger / power adapter.

If anywhere then in the 'phone
The plug looked a standard black plastic, plug-in adapter on a curly lead.
S'pose there could have been a resistor in there but with the shoebox size
of those batteries, it would seem illogical and unsafe without assistance
from some kind of external heatsink.
Pity, nearly bought a 4800x off Ebay the other month, could have confirmed
the charging and whether Nicad or not.

 

[DaveC]

Hey, Win! Remember: cross-post, don't multiple-post!

My Braun 5414 shaver runs from both 115vac and 12vdc using the same cord. The
battery will charge on either voltage. Battery is NiCd AA "non-replaceable"
(which I've replaced once already).

It's pushing it (my memory) but it's about 10 years old, give or take a few.

 

[Joerg]

Hey, Win! Remember: cross-post, don't multiple-post!

My Braun 5414 shaver runs from both 115vac and 12vdc using the same cord. The
battery will charge on either voltage. Battery is NiCd AA "non-replaceable"
(which I've replaced once already).

It's pushing it (my memory) but it's about 10 years old, give or take a few.

Yep, got one of those as well. But it doesn't work as well as the old
non-rechargeables :-(

 

[[email protected]]

I didn't. I canceled my first post within seconds of
placing it, for further editing. Did you see two posts?

Yep, got one of those as well. But it doesn't work as well
as the old non-rechargeables :-(

Dave and Joerg, can you verify that the charging controller
isn't in the 12V "adapter" plug? With an ohmmeter test?

 

[Joerg]

I didn't. I canceled my first post within seconds of
placing it, for further editing. Did you see two posts?




Dave and Joerg, can you verify that the charging controller
isn't in the 12V "adapter" plug? With an ohmmeter test?

Mine just came with the 120V cord, the 12V cord would be a paid
accessory which I didn't need (and Long's didn't have it anyhow). Just
measured the 120V cord. 0.6ohms each line, meaning it's the usual
stranded wires, no built-in extra resistance. I bought this Braun razor
last year but they've been around for many years.

The old flashlight I had as a kid definitely did not use an adapter
either because you could take off a protective plastic cap and then plug
the flashlight body right into the cigarette lighter outlet of a car.

 

[[email protected]]

Mine just came with the 120V cord, the 12V cord would be a paid
accessory which I didn't need (and Long's didn't have it anyhow).
Just measured the 120V cord. 0.6ohms each line, meaning it's the
usual stranded wires, no built-in extra resistance. I bought this
Braun razor last year but they've been around for many years.

You can get one now on eBay for $3.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150105240694

The old flashlight I had as a kid definitely did not use an adapter
either because you could take off a protective plastic cap and then plug
the flashlight body right into the cigarette lighter outlet of a car.

Do you remember the brand?

 

[Joerg]

You can get one now on eBay for $3.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150105240694

Yeah, but I don't like to shave in the car. It drives me crazy when I
see others do that while cradling a cell phone between shoulder and ear.

Do you remember the brand?

Sorry, I don't. All I remember is that I bought it in Germany. It had a
red body and a white cap for the plug. This flashlight was square, not
round. That was unusual since most other flashlights were round in the
70's, at least in Germany. It cost just a few Deutschmarks back then and
it would light for about 30 mins on one charge when new.

 

[DaveC]

I didn't. I canceled my first post within seconds of

placing it, for further editing. Did you see two posts?

Yes, I did.

Canceling doesn't work with most servers. Neither does Supersede. To my
knowledge these haven't been supported by most servers for a very long time.

Dave and Joerg, can you verify that the charging controller
isn't in the 12V "adapter" plug? With an ohmmeter test?

No, I can't (c:

But the shaver itself says:
"12-240 V ac/dc 50-60Hz / 5w"

Lost the 12 plug.

 

[DaveC]

Dave and Joerg, can you verify that the charging controller

isn't in the 12V "adapter" plug? With an ohmmeter test?

My presumption -- and I think it's sound -- is that when run on mains voltage
the charg is controlled internally, and when run on 12 DC the same is
happening.

 

[Bob]

[...]

I remember a guy in Germany who had this setup around 1987/88: Mobile
phone in his car. Back then mobile phones were "mobile" but not really
portable unless you were a weight lifter. So, since he had to inspect
construction on high rises he had another phone in his car. That one was
a wireless phone just like most of us have at home. Only talks to its
base. This base in turn was linked to his mobile phone in the car.

The handset came with a cradle that had a 12V cigarette lighter plug and
it was definitely some NiCd current limit scheme. Else the handset would
have exploded I guess. The cradle was meant to be bolted to the dash and
the phone clicked into it so it wouldn't fly about after hitting a
pothole. Supposedly you could leave it on the charger indefinitely. Of
course this guy didn't since he wanted his car to start after a few days
of parking. Also, he was a smoker and needed that cigarette lighter once
in a while ;-)

I just don't remember who made this stuff. He had it installed at some
pro-shop and it was a major European mobile phone brand.

Yes. We had a Motorola 4800x in about '86. Battery powered luggable phone
but with a 12V cigar lighter adapter for car charging. Vague memories of the
battery pack being NiCad.

I have a motorola bag phone in deep storage somewhere,
despite the analog cellular networks here being switched
off years ago.
Havn't got it out for a while but I just found a picture
of a 4800x with google and it looks like the one I have.
I disposed of the battery because it was totally dead
but I'm fairly certain it was lead acid.
Bob

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

I had a tiny FM radio with an internal rechargeable battery. It was
recharged from a battery pack containing 4 AA cells. I can't recall
exactly when I bought it, but I'm sure it was at least 10 years ago.
More like 20 years ago. It quit working a few years back and I'm not
sure if its in my busted junk pile or long since thrown out

 

[jasen]

I'm thinking about the simple scheme of charging a portable device's
rechargeable internal battery from an external battery (which should
have
a little higher voltage, obviously). The portable device should have
an
internal charge controller to protect its battery and manage the
charging.

Does an automobile count as a portable device? I recall mention of a
drycell pack that could be applied to recharge the car battery it it was
accidentally depleted.

another thing worth considering is the origin of the term "secondary cell"

Bye.
Jasen

 

[Joerg]

Does an automobile count as a portable device? ...

Probably only this one does:
http://www.goggomobil.com/

Some kids hand-carried one into the lobby of our high school as a prank.
Just lifted it off the ground and walked with it.

 

[joseph2k]

[...]

I remember a guy in Germany who had this setup around 1987/88: Mobile
phone in his car. Back then mobile phones were "mobile" but not really
portable unless you were a weight lifter. So, since he had to inspect
construction on high rises he had another phone in his car. That one
was a wireless phone just like most of us have at home. Only talks to
its base. This base in turn was linked to his mobile phone in the car.

The handset came with a cradle that had a 12V cigarette lighter plug
and it was definitely some NiCd current limit scheme. Else the handset
would have exploded I guess. The cradle was meant to be bolted to the
dash and the phone clicked into it so it wouldn't fly about after
hitting a pothole. Supposedly you could leave it on the charger
indefinitely. Of course this guy didn't since he wanted his car to
start after a few days of parking. Also, he was a smoker and needed
that cigarette lighter once in a while ;-)

I just don't remember who made this stuff. He had it installed at some
pro-shop and it was a major European mobile phone brand.

Yes. We had a Motorola 4800x in about '86. Battery powered luggable
phone but with a 12V cigar lighter adapter for car charging. Vague
memories of the battery pack being NiCad.

Do you know if the charging-control circuitry was in the lighter
adapter or in the phone itself?

These days in a way it's in both, thatis the car adapter regulates
the voltage down to about 6 volts and the phone controls charging
to its battery from the 6-volt power from the adapter. A Belkin
adapter I looked at current limits at 125mA, but others go all the
way to 600mA, etc., providing high currents like the phone's
regular ac-line charger / power adapter.

The oldest bag phones i remember had a fuse in the lighter plug, circia
1993, all other electronics was in the "bag". The first cell phones that i
remember having anything electronic beyond a fuse / resistor / some diodes
was about 1998 Motorola / Nextel car adapters with some widget in the
lighter plug.