Caution with CFLs

[Daniel Who Wants to Know]

I recently lost 2 26W (100W equivelant) GE helical CFLs (FLE26HT3/2/SW) in 1
day due to having a 10,800 BTUH window air conditioner on the same circuit
causing low line voltage. Apon inspection it appears that in both bulbs the
same .1uF 250 VDC metal film capacitor (104J250) failed with it's guts
partially blown out and the end cracked loose. The main fusible resistors
in both bulbs are still good so I plan to replace the failed capacitor and
hope they start working again. I will let you know how it goes.

Word to the wise: The bulbs say 120V on them for a reason, if you plan to
use CFLs I would check your line voltage and make sure they are on a circuit
that doesn't experience many sags and surges (such as from... oh say maybe a
compressor cycling... DOH!!

BTW I love GE CFLs as I had 1 that lasted for 5 years 3 months and a week
and it was on 24/7/365 almost the entire time.

 

[Eeyore]

I recently lost 2 26W (100W equivelant) GE helical CFLs (FLE26HT3/2/SW) in 1
day due to having a 10,800 BTUH window air conditioner on the same circuit
causing low line voltage.

Just how low ? I've always thought that 120V circuits were nuts. Europe doesn't
have this problem with our 230V circuits.

Graham

 

[Vaughn Simon]

I recently bought about 40 CFL bulbs and have had 4 fail so far (FEIT
brand--they were cheap). All of the ones that failed we on circuits that
had dimmer switches.

Somewher on the package in tiny letters are the words "not dimable"

I have since removed the dimmers.

Good move.

Perhaps I should
sell all of my dimmer switches on eBay before they ban incandescents!

Dimmable CFLs are out there, but they are hard to find.

My pet peve is remote controlled ceiling fans, which all seem to have a
non-removable dimmer circuit.

Vaughn

 

[Eeyore]

"Eeyore" wrote

There are other problems.

230V circuits in the U.K. aren't as stable as the 120V systems in the U.S.
The voltage can vary from +10% to -6%. In 2008 it will be widened to +/-
10%. In the U.S. voltages are maintained +/- 5%.

Actual UK wall sockets don't vary by +10/-6%. That wide tolerance is purely a
politically inspired 'fudge' to make all Europe appear to have a common voltage.
The UK was previously officially 240V and aside perhaps from new construction
where a new substation is fitted, it's still 240V (and very stable).

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

At 50 Hz it seems like there would be more problems with pusations in
lighting systems.

No, none.

Maybe you all have figured out a way around this but it
seems like a big disadvantage. There are stepper motor applications where
there can be an adjustability in 60 increments because we have a 60 Hz
system. The UK system is inferior by about 17% on the frequency (60 Hz vs
50 Hz) which is a huge disadvantage. Even Japan who uses 240V has upgraded
to 60 Hz in the western regions.

I don't know of any stepper motors running on mains frequency. Are you sure
that's what you mean ?

Plus, the higher voltage seems unsafe for everyday residential circuits.

Seems ? Electrocution is virtually unheard of here.

Maybe you blokes are saving money on copper wire by using the higher
voltages or else the appliances are built more cheaply due to the higher
voltages.

Why would appliances be built more cheaply becasue of a higher voltage ?

The U.K. seems to stand alone in plug and wall socket types. But, there are
fuses located within your plugs. Since these are at maximum 13A, do you
really use residential devices which can draw 2800 watts?

Yes, some space heaters and things like washing machines use up to the maximium.



Graham

 

[TKM]

I recently bought about 40 CFL bulbs and have had 4 fail so far (FEIT
brand--they were cheap). All of the ones that failed we on circuits that
had dimmer switches. I have since removed the dimmers. Perhaps I should
sell all of my dimmer switches on eBay before they ban incandescents!

Some CFLs (marked dimmable) will work on dimmer switches; but they do
require a certain type. You may be lucky enough to have the right kind.

TKM

 

[Gordon]

I bought about 24 at Home Depot; nVision brand and two failed so far
(one in 30 seconds, one in 4 months) Both were cheerfully replaced
immediately. That's how things are now; you buy crap with a guarantee,
and they replace it as soon as it breaks. Forever!

That's not a guarantee. That's a replacement policy.
A guarantee would mean the device would work for as
long as they claimed.

 

[Eeyore]

Less copper needed.

The difference is so miniscule as to be barely worth considering.

Graham

 

[Daniel Who Wants to Know]

WHOOPS! Spoke too soon; another burned out just this second, installed
3-22-07 and this is a GE. Unlike the nVision, the GE has no umber to call
for replacement on the bulb so I guess some receipt research is in order.
Damned Chinese crap.....

What were the failure symptoms? did it flicker some or just go out, Do the
end filaments glow when powered or is it dead and did it release the magic
smoke? 1 of the two that had a failed film capacitor produced a puff of
smoke as it flickered and died.

If you can't find the receipt you could send me the failed bulb for an
autopsy or possible repair. I may start analyzing failure patterns.

My failures thus far: Diagnosis:
Lights of America 60 Unknown

Lights of America 200 Bad electrolytic cap (remember the bad caps on
motherboards lol) took out controller chip

Feit Electric PAR38 120 tube leads corroded through resulting in shorted
FETs in ballast

GE 60 after 5 years filaments glowed for a few
seconds then internal fuse blew

Philips 60 PTC starting resistor disintegrated along
with other solder bonds.

GE 60 Dropped and shattered while installing,
used ballast for F15T8 black light

GE 100 X2 same Film capacitor blew in both, repaired

What I find strange is that the LOA 200 bulb used a controller IC while all
the others are simple free running oscillators with tube current feedback
for regulation.

 

[Eeyore]

We then lopped off those obscene British plugs

BS 1363 mains connectors are regularly considered to be the safest on the planet.

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

I LIKE 240 volt appliances, especially heating appliances.

Me too.

She has a water kettle for making tea that seems to heat almost instantly.
I don't recall for sure but it seems like it is rated at 3.5KW.

I hardwired a nice 1.7 L 3 kW stainless steel Swan teakettle into my stove...
5 pounds at a jumble (yard) sale. It heats very quickly and shuts itself off
when the water boils and makes steam. If you push the button to turn it on
without water, it overheats and pops its plug out of its socket

Is your 120 V bulb on 240 with a diode dimmer on 120 V with no diode?
You might compare the intensities of two bulbs with a grease spot on
a piece of white paper that disappears when equally-illuminated on
both sides, and measure the distance from the spot to each bulb.

Nick

 

[no spam]

I bought about 24 at Home Depot; nVision brand and two failed so far

Then lets just say they guarantee to replace it every single time it
breaks. Kinda like the police promise to come to your house and
investigate right after you call and say your unarmed wife has just been
raped and murdered.

Had to jump in here with that. The US courts have ruled that the police do
NOT have to keep that promise.

 

[sylvan butler]

10%. In the U.S. voltages are maintained +/- 5%.

Not!

The power company standard is 105 to 130, or about 115 +/-10%.

I typically will see voltage range from 113 to 127 on a given day. It's
usually 117 to 127 but hot summer evenings the neighborhood drops quite
a bit. Both legs are similar. Oh, and it is only two houses per
transformer in this neighborhood.

sdb

 

[Gordon]

I recently lost 2 26W (100W equivelant) GE helical CFLs
(FLE26HT3/2/SW) in 1 day due to having a 10,800 BTUH window air
conditioner on the same circuit causing low line voltage. Apon
inspection it appears that in both bulbs the same .1uF 250 VDC metal
film capacitor (104J250) failed with it's guts partially blown out and
the end cracked loose. The main fusible resistors in both bulbs are
still good so I plan to replace the failed capacitor and hope they
start working again. I will let you know how it goes.

Word to the wise: The bulbs say 120V on them for a reason, if you plan
to use CFLs I would check your line voltage and make sure they are on
a circuit that doesn't experience many sags and surges (such as
from... oh say maybe a compressor cycling... DOH!!

BTW I love GE CFLs as I had 1 that lasted for 5 years 3 months and a
week and it was on 24/7/365 almost the entire time.

OK,
Having thought about this for a while I can't see how low voltage
would have caused the capacitors to fail in that way. I could
understand if a solid state device failed (low voltage = higher
current [assuming constant power opperation]).

But a blown capacitor would be caused by a line dump (AKA surge).

 

[Daniel Who Wants to Know]

Is it possible the air conditioner could have caused this?

Anthony

The capacitor in question was between one of the tube filament leads and the
positive side of the DC rail (one of these days I am going to have to make a
full schematic). I am not sure what caused it to fail for sure as far as
surge vs. low voltage goes but I do know that both failed right after being
turned on and that both were in sockets that hold 3 bulbs. The other 2 in
the same fixture still worked fine in both cases. One fixture is in the
kitchen and the other is in my bedroom.

 

[Gordon]

Is it possible the air conditioner could have caused this?

Anthony

Yes

 

[Gordon]

The capacitor in question was between one of the tube filament leads
and the positive side of the DC rail (one of these days I am going to
have to make a full schematic). I am not sure what caused it to fail
for sure as far as surge vs. low voltage goes but I do know that both
failed right after being turned on and that both were in sockets that
hold 3 bulbs. The other 2 in the same fixture still worked fine in
both cases. One fixture is in the kitchen and the other is in my
bedroom.

Do you mean it was wired in series with the tube? One lead to the
tube and the other to the DC rail??

Or was there a 3-way connection of the rail, tube and one lead of the
capacitor with the other capacitor lead going elsewhere?

In any case, I could see where a line dump could cause a failure
of either configuration.