Can I Record Audio onto the Video Tracks of my VHS Video Recorder?

[Gazza]

Hi,

I sometimes record radio shows onto video cassette with my VHS VCR, enjoying
the benefits of being able to record at a pre-programmed time and the long,
continuous recording time that that brings. I record onto the audio tracks
from a SCART patch cable hooked into the headphones socket of a radio, and,
although the VCR is not Hi-Fi stereo, the results sound fine to me (and I
only tend to record documentaries anyway). I was wondering if and how I
could record audio onto the video tracks as surely this would make for much
better audio (given a high-quality audio source, of course) and would be
better for music shows. I had a look on the web but couldn't find anything
except mainly for a site about Betamax recorders where a 'Sony PCM add-on'
was used. I have only a little knowledge of these things and would love to
hear from anyone about my problem.

Thanks a lot.

Yours,
Gary Hayward.

 

[NSM]

| Hi,
|
| I sometimes record radio shows onto video cassette with my VHS VCR,
enjoying
....
| only tend to record documentaries anyway). I was wondering if and how I
| could record audio onto the video tracks as surely this would make for
much

Use a HiFi VHS (stereo) and use the stereo inputs. Same result - you are
using the spinning head.

N

 

[Gazza]

| Hi,
|
| I sometimes record radio shows onto video cassette with my VHS VCR,
enjoying
...
| only tend to record documentaries anyway). I was wondering if and how I
| could record audio onto the video tracks as surely this would make for
much

Use a HiFi VHS (stereo) and use the stereo inputs. Same result - you are
using the spinning head.

N

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Is there a way, though, to record onto the video tracks on my existing VCR?

Yours,
Gary Hayward.

 

[NSM]

| Hi,
|
| Thanks for the reply.
|
| Is there a way, though, to record onto the video tracks on my existing
VCR?

Really, no. Ideally you should have a video signal applied so the system can
sync itself on record and playback, even if the video and audio don't match.

N

 

[Andre]

In fact, before DAT (digital audio tape) recorders were available, there
were PCM modulators build, that sampled audio and put the bits in a
video stream that could be recorded by a normal VCR.
I do not think you will get one of these units anymore, and if so, it
will probably be more expensive than a HIFI-VCR...

Andre

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

Hi,

I sometimes record radio shows onto video cassette with my VHS VCR, enjoying
the benefits of being able to record at a pre-programmed time and the long,
continuous recording time that that brings. I record onto the audio tracks
from a SCART patch cable hooked into the headphones socket of a radio, and,
although the VCR is not Hi-Fi stereo, the results sound fine to me (and I
only tend to record documentaries anyway). I was wondering if and how I
could record audio onto the video tracks as surely this would make for much
better audio (given a high-quality audio source, of course) and would be
better for music shows. I had a look on the web but couldn't find anything
except mainly for a site about Betamax recorders where a 'Sony PCM add-on'
was used. I have only a little knowledge of these things and would love to
hear from anyone about my problem.

Just get a HiFi VCR and use that. It's not worth the effort to use
the video of a normal VCR for high quality audio.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

 

[NSM]

| Just get a HiFi VCR and use that. It's not worth the effort to use
| the video of a normal VCR for high quality audio.

Plus with no video signal I wonder how stable the playback speed would be.

N

 

[Steve]

Hi,

I sometimes record radio shows onto video cassette with my VHS VCR, enjoying
the benefits of being able to record at a pre-programmed time and the long,
continuous recording time that that brings. I record onto the audio tracks
from a SCART patch cable hooked into the headphones socket of a radio, and,
although the VCR is not Hi-Fi stereo, the results sound fine to me (and I
only tend to record documentaries anyway). I was wondering if and how I
could record audio onto the video tracks as surely this would make for much
better audio (given a high-quality audio source, of course) and would be
better for music shows. I had a look on the web but couldn't find anything
except mainly for a site about Betamax recorders where a 'Sony PCM add-on'
was used. I have only a little knowledge of these things and would love to
hear from anyone about my problem.

Thanks a lot.

Yours,
Gary Hayward.

Gary,
I would ditch the VCR idea entirely.

Presumably, you've proven you have a computer since you are on this
group. Does it have a sound card?

Free Windows software: http://www.audiograbber.com-us.net

I use it & recommend it.

You can dump to a wave file with this program, and the length of
time you can record is limited only by your hard drive. You
can record for days and days for less than a Gig of space. (I
sample at 11 KHz for voice programs. Of course if you want
real fidelity, you can consume disk space much, much faster.)

Oops, I see your header says you are using Knode, (me too!) The
Winders software is likely of interest to others, so I'll leave
it.

So, For Linux:

If you are partial to KDE:
http://software.jodda.de

Or...

http://www.taolab.it/opensource/flrec/index_en.htm

This one has a scheduler..
http://www.redfelineninja.dsl.pipex.com/software/pydar.html

Or go to http://freshmeat.net and search for "audio recorder".

Sorry, I haven't tried any of these Linux programs. Hmmm, maybe I
will now...

Thanks, Steve

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

| Just get a HiFi VCR and use that. It's not worth the effort to use
| the video of a normal VCR for high quality audio.

Plus with no video signal I wonder how stable the playback speed would be.

Yes, if it recorded anything at all. If it doesn't see a reasonably
legitimate video signal, it won't be happy. And, don't forget the
sync and blanking that will be in the playback regardless.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

 

[Gazza]

Gary,
I would ditch the VCR idea entirely.

Presumably, you've proven you have a computer since you are on this
group. Does it have a sound card?

Free Windows software: http://www.audiograbber.com-us.net

I use it & recommend it.

You can dump to a wave file with this program, and the length of
time you can record is limited only by your hard drive. You
can record for days and days for less than a Gig of space. (I
sample at 11 KHz for voice programs. Of course if you want
real fidelity, you can consume disk space much, much faster.)

Oops, I see your header says you are using Knode, (me too!) The
Winders software is likely of interest to others, so I'll leave
it.

So, For Linux:

If you are partial to KDE:
http://software.jodda.de

Or...

http://www.taolab.it/opensource/flrec/index_en.htm

This one has a scheduler..
http://www.redfelineninja.dsl.pipex.com/software/pydar.html

Or go to http://freshmeat.net and search for "audio recorder".

Sorry, I haven't tried any of these Linux programs. Hmmm, maybe I
will now...

Thanks, Steve

Hi,

Thanks for the recommendations. I have Windows '98 on one of my boxes
and have used GoldWave and N-Track Studio (these aren't expensive but aren't
free either, but they seem okay from what use I've made of them). I like
Audacity under Mandrake but I haven't been able to find find any plug-ins
for it from anywhere. I use an M-Audio Delta 1010 LT audio interface and a
Behringer 1832FX-Pro analogue mixing desk.

Yours,
Gary Hayward.

 

[NSM]

| Yes, if it recorded anything at all. If it doesn't see a reasonably
| legitimate video signal, it won't be happy. And, don't forget the
| sync and blanking that will be in the playback regardless.

My thought was to use any signal, even a test pattern, and record the
desired audio signal. Even at the 6 hr rate the audio will be very good.

N

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

| Yes, if it recorded anything at all. If it doesn't see a reasonably
| legitimate video signal, it won't be happy. And, don't forget the
| sync and blanking that will be in the playback regardless.

My thought was to use any signal, even a test pattern, and record the
desired audio signal. Even at the 6 hr rate the audio will be very good.

Yes, on a HiFi VCR. I've done that even using off-the-air video with
audio from a separate source.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

I agree with the others that have posted on this topic, but just for grins
and giggles I tried it with a ToteVision (Goldstar) cheap-o 2 head VCR and a
Samsung 4 head unit, model # unknown.

It appears that this could actually work, as both units happily recorded
audio onto the tape at SP speed with my (mis)using the composite video input
for audio from a CD player. However, the audio signal was rather grossly
overloaded, so you'd probably need to attenuate it a bit for better results.
I didn't try LP or EP speeds.

Other than the overloaded audio signal, the Samsung VCR did a pretty good
job of putting the sound on the video tracks of the tape. The Totevision
(Goldstar) machine had big problems maintaining speed. It was easy to tell
that the speed was wandering up and down just by listening to the "tape
drive" motor while it was recording.

You can also watch the recorded signal on your TV, but I don't know that
there is anything to be learned from doing so. (I did at least this much
many years ago by plugging a composite computer screen into a musical
keyboard and watching what happened when I played the keyboard...) I have no
idea if this places extra stress on your TV, but it worked just fine a
minutes ago and all those years ago on the computer monitor.

So now you know. I doubt you can harm your VCR by trying this, but "the
usual disclaimer" applies. If you break something while doing this, you are
the proud owner of the remaining pieces. You do this at your own risk.

William

 

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

SONY used to make a pulse code modulation (PCM) convertor specifically
for recording hi fidelity audio onto VCR tapes. I don't recall the
specifics but it was a high end device.

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"

The Lost Deep Thoughts By: Jack Handey
Before a mad scientist goes mad, there's probably a time
when he's only partially mad. And this is the time when he's
going to throw his best parties.

 

[Wildcard]

Hi,

I sometimes record radio shows onto video cassette with my VHS VCR, enjoying
the benefits of being able to record at a pre-programmed time and the long,
continuous recording time that that brings. I record onto the audio tracks
from a SCART patch cable hooked into the headphones socket of a radio, and,
although the VCR is not Hi-Fi stereo, the results sound fine to me (and I
only tend to record documentaries anyway). I was wondering if and how I
could record audio onto the video tracks as surely this would make for much
better audio (given a high-quality audio source, of course) and would be
better for music shows. I had a look on the web but couldn't find anything
except mainly for a site about Betamax recorders where a 'Sony PCM add-on'
was used. I have only a little knowledge of these things and would love to
hear from anyone about my problem.

Thanks a lot.

Yours,
Gary Hayward.

Find a hi-fi (not liner hi-fi but true hi-fi) VCR. You will
then have essentially the same thing as a DAT recorder. With
that you can achieve CD quality sound but only in SP mode.
Assuming a good quality audio source.

That will limit you to two hours recording. In EP the quality
will not be still be good just not as good as SP.

I do the same thing myself with a Sony hi-fi vcr with a
mini dish as the source. Works great. It is then possible
to edit the songs you would like to keep and burn em
onto a CD.

Not that I would do that. Or even recommend or suggest
that.

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

HiFi VCRs are not the same thing as DAT recorders. Not even close. The
audio may be far superior to linear tracks on a VCR but not only is the
performance in a different class than DAT, the technology is completely
different.

It does not make sense to try to use the video tracks for audio without some
form of encoding and decoding. The sync necessary to record at all is in
the audible range. HiFi tracks are adequate for most applications but most
machines will require some video to sync up.

Leonard

 

[Wildcard]

True hi-fi vcr's don't record on the video track. They have separate
audio heads built into the drum to record alongside the video
track. Independent L + R.

I'm by no means a expert on DAT but I understand they do the same thing
without the video.

Sure feed a digital audio signal into a DAT and you'll get a better
recording. Feed in standard analog stereo and I doubt you will notice
any difference between the vcr and the DAT recording.

The surround sound out of my prerecorded tapes sounds just as good as
the sound from the DVD. I will say the digital surround out of the DVD
doesn't so much sound better. It just gives a wider range of more
distinct individual sounds. I actually prefer the analog since it
seems to cut off the ability for the sound people to really screw up
the sound track. I just hate it when you can barely hear the dialogue
then they blow you out of the room with a action scene.

 

[Asimov]

"Wildcard" bravely wrote to "All" (15 Jan 05 18:45:24)
--- on the heady topic of "Re: Can I Record Audio onto the Video Tracks of my VHS Video Recorder?"

Wi> From: Wildcard <[email protected]>
Wi> Xref: aeinews sci.electronics.repair:7314

Wi> True hi-fi vcr's don't record on the video track. They have separate
Wi> audio heads built into the drum to record alongside the video
Wi> track. Independent L + R.

No, VHS hifi audio is an FM signal recorded under the video track
using the same rotating drum with the audio heads alongside the video
heads. It is normal audio that is striped linearly on a separate R/L
head. Hifi audio is nearly equal to CD quality while normal audio
isn't much better than a good cassette recording.

A*s*i*m*o*v

.... A stereo system is the altar to the god of music.

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

DAT records digitally, HiFi VCRs record analog FM. They are similar in that
they use a similar technique for laying down the information. Regardless of
what you feed into either, using a digital process will eliminate the
switching noise that is always present to some degree on AFM HiFi machines.
It also eliminates any loss in the analog stages of processing and any added
noise in the record/play process.

HiFi VCRs may be adequate for your purpose, and you may not find the
difference significant, but to consider them comparable to DAT as a
record/playback system is simply incorrect. Any comparison side by side
would be pretty obvious on any decent audio system.

If you are finding a loss of dialogue on Dolby Digital compared to analog
you are not using your decoder correctly. Learn about the steering in Dolby
Pro Logic an Digital processes and either get a center channel that is set
up correctly, use the phantom mode on your processor, or use the two channel
analog output from your DVD player.

Leonard