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That's a weird place for it to spark.
What I want you to do is to remove the wire connecting to the corner of the board (you have it marked as "brown wire", but it looks more orange to me).
Then power up the device and you should not have sparking -- tell me if you do (and go no further).
Then try operating the feed motor. I believe it should not operate as I imagine the brown/orange wire is either connected to the motor or it is the power for it. You should be able to see and hear the relay operating. Tell me if you do.
And where does the black wire (labelled 7) go to?
What I want you to do is to remove the wire connecting to the corner of the board (you have it marked as "brown wire", but it looks more orange to me).
Then power up the device and you should not have sparking -- tell me if you do (and go no further).
Then try operating the feed motor. I believe it should not operate as I imagine the brown/orange wire is either connected to the motor or it is the power for it. You should be able to see and hear the relay operating. Tell me if you do.
And where does the black wire (labelled 7) go to?
Hey Steve, thanks for your continued support 
I did as you said and removed the brown/ orange wire. When I turn on the welder, the sparking's gone. When I try the trigger on the mig gun, the relay indeed closes.
The black wire labeld 7 goes to the on/ off button. It's a 6 pin rocker switch with 2 wires for 230V, 2 wires for the fan, brown and white going to the transformer and white (labeld 8) and black (7) going to the PCB
I did as you said and removed the brown/ orange wire. When I turn on the welder, the sparking's gone. When I try the trigger on the mig gun, the relay indeed closes.
The black wire labeld 7 goes to the on/ off button. It's a 6 pin rocker switch with 2 wires for 230V, 2 wires for the fan, brown and white going to the transformer and white (labeld 8) and black (7) going to the PCB
OK, that's excellent.
The next step is to turn off the welder, remove the brown and brown/orange wire (6 and 7) and use a multimeter to measure the resistance across these spade connectors.
It should be a complete open circuit, but I'm guessing it won't be.
Now I'll show my lack of understanding. When you trigger the MIG gun, I presume it is supposed to do more than just turn on the wire feed motor. Does this provide power to whatever provides the arc as well? It certainly sounds like that from your description of what is connected to the brown/orange wire.
My guess is that there *could* be some metal swarf around the base of the relay, but you indicate that there is also sparking within the relay, so that doesn't fit. For the relay to be sparking inside, the voltage must be way higher than the rated voltage for the relay. I'm wondering if there's not some other fault.
If you were brave, you could try triggering the welder while the relay was sparking (preferably with all the covers on in case something explodes) and see if the welder does what it's supposed to. In theory, the relay closing should eliminate the sparking, but I'm not sure if it will ever open again -- have someone manning the power switch. <-- this will tell you a lot, but I'm not sure it's the best idea in the world.
The next step is to turn off the welder, remove the brown and brown/orange wire (6 and 7) and use a multimeter to measure the resistance across these spade connectors.
It should be a complete open circuit, but I'm guessing it won't be.
Now I'll show my lack of understanding. When you trigger the MIG gun, I presume it is supposed to do more than just turn on the wire feed motor. Does this provide power to whatever provides the arc as well? It certainly sounds like that from your description of what is connected to the brown/orange wire.
My guess is that there *could* be some metal swarf around the base of the relay, but you indicate that there is also sparking within the relay, so that doesn't fit. For the relay to be sparking inside, the voltage must be way higher than the rated voltage for the relay. I'm wondering if there's not some other fault.
If you were brave, you could try triggering the welder while the relay was sparking (preferably with all the covers on in case something explodes) and see if the welder does what it's supposed to. In theory, the relay closing should eliminate the sparking, but I'm not sure if it will ever open again -- have someone manning the power switch. <-- this will tell you a lot, but I'm not sure it's the best idea in the world.
Hey Steve,
Crap, I've had the welder on all this time!
I'm not sure which wires you are refering to. The wire labeld 7 is black. Do you mean the wires on the rocker switch? If I measure these wires, I should get an unreadable resistance right? (if it was indeed an open circuit)
The trigger on the mig gun not only feeds the wire but also "turns on" the power: if the welder's on but the trigger isn't pushed, I can just scrape the wire against the baseclamp and nothing happens. I asume the 12v end of the relay feeds power to the wirefeed motor when it closes, and also somehow triggers the main current to the gun
About the sparking: as you can see on the photo, the relay is slightly slanted at the inner edge (less than a mm), this is because I used a piece of tape to hold it in place when I was soldering. The relay is translucent, and I haven't realy stuck my head in there to check if it was sparking inside: it could be a reflection (or whisfull thinking, but I digress...). I used flux for the solders: some solder material might have "leaked" through the solder holes and create the metal swarf. The relay is fucked anyway: I could try resoldering it, making sure there is absolutely no gap between it and the board, so no solder can come between?
Crap, I've had the welder on all this time!
I'm not sure which wires you are refering to. The wire labeld 7 is black. Do you mean the wires on the rocker switch? If I measure these wires, I should get an unreadable resistance right? (if it was indeed an open circuit)
The trigger on the mig gun not only feeds the wire but also "turns on" the power: if the welder's on but the trigger isn't pushed, I can just scrape the wire against the baseclamp and nothing happens. I asume the 12v end of the relay feeds power to the wirefeed motor when it closes, and also somehow triggers the main current to the gun
About the sparking: as you can see on the photo, the relay is slightly slanted at the inner edge (less than a mm), this is because I used a piece of tape to hold it in place when I was soldering. The relay is translucent, and I haven't realy stuck my head in there to check if it was sparking inside: it could be a reflection (or whisfull thinking, but I digress...). I used flux for the solders: some solder material might have "leaked" through the solder holes and create the metal swarf. The relay is fucked anyway: I could try resoldering it, making sure there is absolutely no gap between it and the board, so no solder can come between?
You're 100% right. I meant black. Different photos seem to show it as different colours, but the first shows it as clearly brown and black (not orange and brown).
I also note that this new software doesn't have the "naughty word filter". I'll have to remember that...
I'm concerned about why the relay is sparking, but as far as I can tell, a direct short across the black/brown wires should lead to the operation of the welder, not sparks/flames.
The relay should be replaced again (as it does look melted) but I'd want to know why the sparking occurred in the first place. It's unlikely that you had just enough solder to spark, but not sufficient to totally short out the connection and get the welder to run.
I also note that this new software doesn't have the "naughty word filter". I'll have to remember that...
I'm concerned about why the relay is sparking, but as far as I can tell, a direct short across the black/brown wires should lead to the operation of the welder, not sparks/flames.
The relay should be replaced again (as it does look melted) but I'd want to know why the sparking occurred in the first place. It's unlikely that you had just enough solder to spark, but not sufficient to totally short out the connection and get the welder to run.
I would normally expect a lot more than 48k. Perhaps there's some carbonized board there caused by the arcing, or something. That probably needs to be looked at and repaired (or cleaned) until these terminals measure open circuit on your multimeter. (oh, and make sure you're not touching the metal parts of the probes when you do these measurements or you'll be measuring *your* resistance!)
Good thing I'm irresistable! haha...no? no one? right. I remeasured the terminals just to be sure, and it's closer to 60kohm, but I should read nothing at all basically. The two terminals hook up to the 2 sets of 2 pins on the relay and when I test resistance over these 2 sets (the outer set of pins is only hooked up to the brown wire), I get 55-60 kohms. My old relay has an unmeasurable resistance over these 2 sets of pins. It's 3 am so I'm not sure if these measurements are relevant or that I should only test the resistance when the relay is unsolderd.
I desolderd the relay and tried again: it's definitely the relay. The terminals read infinite (after thoroughly cleaning them) and the pins on the relay give roughly the same value ( approx. 48kohm)
You can clearly see the short now that the relay is removed (new, shorted relay on right)
*edit* how about only soldering the 2 pins opposing to the shorted pins to the board? Both sets of 2 pins hook up to the same piece of metal inside the relay so the additional pins are only for support/ symetry/ redundancy?
You can clearly see the short now that the relay is removed (new, shorted relay on right)
*edit* how about only soldering the 2 pins opposing to the shorted pins to the board? Both sets of 2 pins hook up to the same piece of metal inside the relay so the additional pins are only for support/ symetry/ redundancy?
The $64 question is why did this happen.
Was it something on the board, a relay fault, or something else.
The extra pins are there for current carrying capability too. In any case, the plastic is in contact with them, and this burnt plastic is probably where that 48k is coming from.
Now that the relay is removed, I would check with power on once more to ensure that there's no sparking.
Then I'd get another relay.
However a question I have is that if this relay turns on whatever is needed to cause an arc, why is this stopping the wirefeeder? Are we even looking at your original fault?
Was it something on the board, a relay fault, or something else.
The extra pins are there for current carrying capability too. In any case, the plastic is in contact with them, and this burnt plastic is probably where that 48k is coming from.
Now that the relay is removed, I would check with power on once more to ensure that there's no sparking.
Then I'd get another relay.
However a question I have is that if this relay turns on whatever is needed to cause an arc, why is this stopping the wirefeeder? Are we even looking at your original fault?
You probably need to draw out a circuit of your control board, to better understand how it works. It almost looks like a combination of these 2. The Easy Mig power is always on to the main T/F & the trigger activates an SCR to turn on the Wire feed. The SIP MIG the relay is activated by the trigger, 
this turns on the main T/F & the wire feed is drawn straight of the Main T/F.
Yes, push the trigger. I expect nothing much will happen, but let me know if I'm wrong.
They also seemed incomplete. Metiz, it might be good for you to post images of both sides of the board so I can draw up a partial schematic. It will help me even if you don't understand it
Hooked the wires back up, powerd on the welder and tried the trigger. No sparking. There's a piece of plastic that holds the variable resistor in place that obscures the traces and some components somewhat,
In this picture, the clusters of 4 black...things has "101" written on them. The one just to the top right of these 4 has "100" and the 2 to the right, from top to bottom: 222 and 272. Far left: 3900. top left: 100
In this picture, the clusters of 4 black...things has "101" written on them. The one just to the top right of these 4 has "100" and the 2 to the right, from top to bottom: 222 and 272. Far left: 3900. top left: 100
I was getting kinda fed up with this whole relay business so I decided to "f*ck around" a bit. I removed the plastic housing from the relay and cut away the 2 shorting pins. I then resolderd it to the board and just tried it...and it works. No short, the relay closes and the wirefeed motor operates like it should! This isn't a permanent solution of course, but at least now I know it was indeed just the relay that died. I wonder what made this thing short. It works fine with 2 pins so the specifiactions are ok too I guess.
So now I need a new relay, and just a new relay. Someone on a different forum suggested a Digikey # Z2839-ND, but this relay works on 380V and only 10 amps. Does anyone have another (digikey) suggestion?
So now I need a new relay, and just a new relay. Someone on a different forum suggested a Digikey # Z2839-ND, but this relay works on 380V and only 10 amps. Does anyone have another (digikey) suggestion?
Well done.
It would be nice to find something with a higher current rating.
That relay is a SPDT relay. From what I saw, the original is SPST, Normally open.
This would be my choice.
Here is a list of potentially useful relays. Note that the case style is important, not all of these will fit onto your board (I don't even know if the one I suggested will).
It would be nice to find something with a higher current rating.
That relay is a SPDT relay. From what I saw, the original is SPST, Normally open.
This would be my choice.
Here is a list of potentially useful relays. Note that the case style is important, not all of these will fit onto your board (I don't even know if the one I suggested will).
