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anyone play with the Honeywell inverter generators?

D

danny burstein

They've got them in the 1kw -> 7kw range (although the
web page only shows the 1 and 2 kw units).

I've seen the smaller one (not sure whether it was the 1
or the 2 kw assembly) for about $500, and the 7 kw
unit - which includes electric start, for about $1,000.

That's a lot better, pricewise, than our beloved Hondas.

Anyone have experience with them? I'm particularly interested
in how well they throttle down, so to speak, on partial loads.

Thanks.

honeywell's page:
http://www.honeywellgenerators.com/inverter-generators.php
 
Hmm. That's a tempting little gen. I've been eyeballing honda inverter
alternatives for a while and have been seeing these
ETQ
http://tinyurl.com/29z92yb

But they are 2 stroke and I don't want to dick around mixing fuel.

Hmm, it says 4 stroke *and* 50:1 oil mix. Weird, but I'm guessing that
it's actually a 4 stroke. I can't vouch for their generators, but I
have an ETQ pressure washer and it's quite nice. Very close copy of a
Honda.

Wayne
 
V

vaughn

danny burstein said:
They've got them in the 1kw -> 7kw range (although the
web page only shows the 1 and 2 kw units).

I've seen the smaller one (not sure whether it was the 1
or the 2 kw assembly) for about $500, and the 7 kw
unit - which includes electric start, for about $1,000.

Their inverter units seem to only be 1 KW and 2 KW. They seem to also offer a
complete line of conventional generators and even a 25 KW home standby
generator.
Anyone have experience with them? I'm particularly interested
in how well they throttle down, so to speak, on partial loads.

No experience, but there are several positive reviews on Wal-Mart's site.
Wal-Mart will ship to any of their stores for free.

One review mentions that the unit is not as quiet as a Honda. Also, they do not
seem to have the parallel operation feature like the EU series.

I doubt if Honeywell really owns a generator factory, so these are probably
private branded Chinese or Korean units.

Vaughn
 
D

danny burstein

Their inverter units seem to only be 1 KW and 2 KW. They seem to also offer a
complete line of conventional generators and even a 25 KW home standby
generator.

I saw the 7 KW unit at a Costco a couple of weeks ago, which
is what got me thinking. (Yes, I know that neither the Honeywell
nor Costco web pages have it).
I doubt if Honeywell really owns a generator factory, so these are probably
private branded Chinese or Korean units.

In the Good Old Daze the Honeywell Corporation actually
did make lots and lots of good quality electrical gear,
including generators, motor-generators, switching
equipment, and much, much, more.
 
V

vaughn

Jim said:
Honeywell is also making a windmill generator.
It appears that Honeywell's business plan is to simply rent out their trademark
to whomever. I found the following on one of the web pages for that wind
turbine: "The Honeywell Trademark is used under license from Honeywell
International Inc. Honeywell International Inc. makes no representation or
warranties with respect to this product."

A couple years ago when I was actually employed, I used to buy Honeywell-branded
NIMH batteries for certain 2-way radios that I maintained. They had a perfectly
good product, but that outfit seemed to have no particular connection to the
Honeywell company except for use of their logo.

Vaughn
 
Honeywell is also making a windmill generator. There was one on
display at a SAM's store here, and is designed to generate electricity
optimized for lower wind speeds.. There was one on display here
at the local SAM"s club for about a month, and I missed it. You
can order one at any ACE hardware store (don't know if that is
local or not).

Here is the link I have for it:


http://www.earthtronics.com/honeywell.aspx

$6500 msrp and 6' diameter. Yikes.

Wayne
 
V

vaughn

Josepi said:
"Lower wind speed"

That usually means it can't survive strong winds and starts at 3m/sec winds
no load like every other turbine.

I did notice the lack of a wind speed/power output graph. That is pretty basic
information that you expect to see for any wind turbine. I also notice that the
thing is ugly as sin. Finally, I do like the idea of the blade tip power
generation.

They make a big point that the turbine is "free turning" since there is no
mechanical gearing to the alternator, but since power is still extracted from
the turbine, it is NOT free turning.

Vaughn
 
V

vaughn

While they may be a perfectly good product, the only connection with Honeywell
seems to be that Northshore Power Systems LLC. of Ann Arbor MI is paying for the
use of the Honeywell trademark. From a news item"While the line will be
designed, distributed and sold by NSPS, they will be manufactured abroad, where
labor costs are lower. Products are designed to be user friendly with
easy-to-follow operating instructions, said Bernard Ibrahim, vice president for
engineering who heads up the Ann Arbor office."

From their advertising material: "© 2009 Northshore Power Systems, LLC The
Honeywell Trademark is used under license from Honeywell International Inc.
Honeywell International Inc. makes no representation or warranties with respect
to this product."

Vaughn
 
B

Bob F

z said:
YOu know you are right. Thanks for pointing that out. I had always
just saw the oil mix and just assumed. A quick search of ETQ gens
looks like they are indeed 4 stroke.

(some other sites talk about a low oil indicator so clearly it is 4
stroke)

There are auto mixing 2 strokes that could use such an indicator.
 
N

nate

I don't know about honeywell as I have a honda inverter generator.

Can someone tell me what does "Floating Neutral" mean on this honeywell page

http://www.honeywellgenerators.com/products/hw7000eh_566992039

On my honda, I see no such reference and assume it has nothing to do with the
requirement that I always connect a neutral wire from honda body post to a
copper spike driven into ground before running generator.

If way off, please educate.
 
R

RamRod Sword of Baal

I am thinking England only uses 240 volts and no neuteral and no 120 volt
sockets in the house.


England does use neutrals.

The active used to be red (Brown now?) and the neutral black (Blue now?) and
the earth green (yellow and green now?)

England does not have 120 volts as a standard voltage.

The English system is 3 phase and single phase. Now it was 415 volts for 3
phase and 240 volts for single phase but I think that has been reduced to
230 volts to comply with European standards, not sure how much the 3 phase
voltage has been reduced.

In UK they have a ring main that is used for domestic plugs (13 amp) where
the cable starts at the 30 amp fuse and returns to the same fuse allowing
the current to flow both ways through the cable. The actual appliance plug
has a smaller fuse inside of it to protect the appliance.
 
R

RamRod Sword of Baal

Josepi said:
Thanx for the info.

You say they use neutrals. Are any of the conductors grounded at any
place?


Neutrals are always needed as the power flows from the active wire through
the appliance and back through the neutral (over simplification).

I actually live is Australia, but did live in the UK for a while quite a few
years ago so I am not 100% up to date on how things are wired there.

So I can only with any accuracy talk about how things are wired in
Australia.

We use a system called MEN, that is Mains Earth Neutral, or Multiply Earth
Neutral, this means that the earth wire and the neutral wires are connected
together in the switchboard of each house.

======================
 
D

daestrom

Ralph said:
It does bug me too about the black wires and I live in the US and work on
both electrical and electronic circuits.

The standard house feed in the US is a center tapped transformer. It is 240
volts across both hot wires and the neutral is the center tap of the
transformer. It is grounded. That means in a properly wired circuit you
will never be more than 120 volts above the ground.

I don't know if or when the over seas color coding changed but we got in
some 480 volt equipment that are in big cabinets that are around 6 feet
tall. On the outside there is a disconnect switch. When the power is on
the switch is pointed to the red color and when the power is off the switch
is pointed to the green color. We think it is to indicate that red means it
is not safe to enter as the power is on and green means that the power is
off and it is safe to enter the cabinet. This is exectally opposit from
anything I have seen in over 30 years. It was always green --power on and
red -- power off.

First commercial control room I was in used red to indicate breakers
closed, and green for open, so that seems the most natural to me. But
over the years I have found some plants have the colors reversed (green
is 'running' and red is 'stopped'). It can be pretty confusing. Funny
thing is, off/open/stopped light seems to always be on the left whether
it's red or green.

Go figure...

daestrom
 
J

Johnny B Good

The message <[email protected]>
from "RamRod Sword of Baal" <[email protected]> contains these words:


England does use neutrals.
The active used to be red (Brown now?) and the neutral black (Blue
now?) and
the earth green (yellow and green now?)

Correct so far. ;-)
England does not have 120 volts as a standard voltage.

Not for domestic supplies.
The English system is 3 phase and single phase. Now it was 415 volts for 3
phase and 240 volts for single phase but I think that has been reduced to
230 volts to comply with European standards, not sure how much the 3 phase
voltage has been reduced.

Three phase and neutral distribution with every 3rd property fed red[1]
phase and neutral and the properties each side being fed blue[1] and
yellow[1] phases respectively along with a neutral. Phase to neutral
voltage being a nominal 240v despite the "Harmonisation"[2] of a
notional 230v european wide appliance rating plate standard.

This distribution philosophy considerably reduces the capital costs in
cabling to domestic properties. In the UK, urban areas are served by
local substations feeding into an underground LV 3 phase street
distribution system. The only areas where the quaint practice of
overhead cable and pole transformers are to be seen are in rural areas
serving remote properties and farms.

Three Phase supplies are generally only available to business premises
and factories.
In UK they have a ring main that is used for domestic plugs (13 amp) where
the cable starts at the 30 amp fuse and returns to the same fuse allowing
the current to flow both ways through the cable. The actual appliance plug
has a smaller fuse inside of it to protect the appliance.

In addition, the lighting is also fed off the same 240v source via 6
amp fuse bridge (maximum rating allowed per lighting circuit) but this
is simply a single run of 1mm FT&E PVC cable usually daisychained from
light fitting to light fitting with switch drops from each ceiling rose.

Most modern house builds have consumer units installed that only accept
miniature circuit breakers and generally utilise a whole house ELCB
breaker (typically 80A/30mA rating). Older properties are fed via a 60
or 80 or 100A service fuse feeding the older Wylex rewirable fused
consumer units via a watt hour meter.

The old Wylex fuse boxes accept different, colour coded fuse shrouds
over their identically rated knife contact gear with the width of the
fuse bridge slots sized accordingly with red allowing the maximum 30 amp
rated blade width to be inserted and white only permitting the narrowest
6 amp blade width rated fuse bridge to be fitted.

The fuse bridges are of the rewirable type but, provided the fuse
bridges haven't been miswired with a higher rating of fusewire, it's
impossible to plug a 30 amp fuse into a smaller rated fuse carrier.
Fitting a lower rated fuse into a high capacity circuit isn't a safety
issue, it just means you'll be replacing a fuse more often than once
every 30 years or so (maybe straight away if a 2KW fire is plugged in
and switched on when you insert a 6A lighting fuse bridge ;-).

Being able to fit a 15A fuse in place of a 30A one on a lightly loaded
30A ring main circuit is a useful feature in that it will improve the
protection against faults in the permanent wiring. If you have to
replace a blown 15A fuse on this circuit more than once a year, you
could always try a 20A one before reverting back to the 30A fuse.

The only disadvantage with using 240v for lighting relates to tungsten
filament lamps which require longer and thinner filaments compared to
their american counterparts which compromises their life versus
efficiency rating. However, since tungsten filament lamps are slowly
being ousted by newer CFL and LED technologies, this is becoming less of
a consideration.

[1] I'm referring to the traditional cable wiring colours for 3 phase
(black being neutral) but the EC have "Harmonised" the wiring colours
across all of the european nations, much to the detriment of safety in
most of the participating countries involved since they've chosen an
entirely arbitary colour coding scheme, seemingly to prove that they
aren't favouring any one particular country's standards. As an example
of the sheer stupidity involved, they've mandated the use of black as a
phase colour!

[2] Europe wide Voltage Harmonisation is simply an exercise in
specifying a common rating plate voltage on domestic appliances at a
compromise voltage that sits neatly between the UK's 240v and the
majority of Europe's 220v standard. Except for tungsten filament lamps,
this does actually bring a benefit without too great a compromise being
made.

Most appliances which utilise mains voltage directly for heating or to
power motors will work just fine over the rejigged Public Supply Utility
(PSU) voltage tolerances designed to prevent these new 230v rated
appliances from being subjected to voltages outside of their nominal
working tolerance range. Off the top of my head, this means a change in
the UK from 240v +/- 6% to 240v +3/-10% whilst in Europe, 220v +/-6%
becomes 220v +10/-3% (or thereabouts).

Other appliances which utilise switching regulators to derive internal
voltages (computers and entertainment devices) are immune to much wider
variations in supply voltage so never had any issue with supplies rated
at either of the two common voltages of 220 and 240.

Tunsten filament lamps are about the only domestic 'appliance' that
needs to be specifically rated for the voltage actually used in their
target country market.

Presumably, at some date in the future, probably when all GLS tungsten
filament lamps have been totally outlawed by the EC, the PSUs will
actually start to harmonise their domestic supply voltage to 230v +/-
6%.

However, the UK PSUs have nothing to gain by this move whilst the
european PSUs will see a benefit in going from 220v to 230v and it seems
more likely that the european PSUs will make the first move (if some
haven't already started doing so). Indeed, it's even possible that the
EC may eventually implement another "Harmonisation" exercise to
standardise on 235 volt (possibly ending up at 240v). It's even possible
that a 240 volt standard might be the long term plan in the EC's policy
on domestic mains supply voltage standards (but that's just my own dark
thoughts on the matter ;-).
 
D

daestrom

.... now - let's work fluid valves into the mix ..
where open valve permits flow - open switch or breaker stops flow.
Normally open switches/breakers get a special indicator arrow
on a drawing ; normally closed for valves ... I think.
.. it's all so confusing. :)
John T.

Which is why I think the Navy (submarines) used circles and bars. A bar
lit up meant the valve was shut, and a circle was open.

On drawings, sometimes a 'filled in' valve symbol means normally shut
and a hollow one normally open.

Then add on to that air-operated valves where a filled in symbol for the
operator meant air pressure to open the valve and a hollow one meant air
pressure to shut the valve. (I think).

ugh....

daestrom
 
D

danny burstein

In said:
Which is why I think the Navy (submarines) used circles and bars. A bar
lit up meant the valve was shut, and a circle was open.

Meanwhile, the European standard for electricl switches
usese a circle (as in a zero) to indicate that
the switch is open - meaning no current, and
a line to indicate that current is going through...
 
V

vaughn

danny burstein said:
Meanwhile, the European standard for electricl switches
usese a circle (as in a zero) to indicate that
the switch is open - meaning no current, and
a line to indicate that current is going through...

In the world of the electronics technician, black is traditionally negative,
which is typically ground. After being an electronics tech for about ten years,
I moved into the traffic signal biz, which runs by electrician's rules. In the
electrician's world, black is always hot. I made some spectacular fireworks
before I got that straight in my head!

Vaughn
 
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