Fish4Fun
So long, and Thanks for all the Fish!
AE (Alternative Energy) seems to be @ the forefront of everyone's mind, so perhaps there should be a "sticky" thread that covers some of the basics....With this in mind, let's use this thread to "hash out" some of the common misconceptions, problems and "answers" to some of the more common "newbie" questions/posts. Below are things I think might be good to point out:
1) Energy Conversion Efficiency.....People always seem to assume that they can "use" all 100W from a source capable of outputting 100W...ie, if they have a 100W solar panel and it is "sunny" 14 hours a day, they assume they can STORE 1400W of power in a battery bank and later convert that 1400W to 120Vac/240Vac grid equivalent power....Obviously this is NOT the case. Other scenarios include inverter efficiencies, Rated Output vs Real-World output, Power available in the wind @ any particular Wind Speed vs Electrical power output @ the same wind speed.....Battery Charging Efficiency....Copper losses in power transmission (ie why NOT to use 1000' of 26ga wire for transmission of 12Vdc @ 10A, lol)....etc, etc. Basically a primer on the third law of thermodynamics....
2) "Eliminating" Grid Demand vs "Replacing" Grid Demand....This is a bit of a play on words, but the idea is that if you "eliminate" an existing grid demand and instead power the device in question directly from an AE source, then the economic viability of the project can increase orders of magnitude....If, for example, you replace 10 "wall-wart" chargers that generally remain "plugged in" 24/7 with a single "solar charger" then you may have "eliminated" as much as 1.2kWh/Day from existing grid consumption, but the panel itself may only need to output 0.5 kWh per day to perform the same charging functions....while a solar array to "Replace" the 1.2kWh/day of grid demand might need to output as much as 5kWh/Day....Not everything has to "plug-in" to the wall....
3) Reducing Consumption is infinitely more cost effective than AE power production....People ASSUME that producing "free power" will "offset wasting power", but in all truly successful AE installations the biggest "savings" comes from Managing//Reducing Consumption....
4) How much 1kWh REALLY IS....Most people have NO IDEA what a HUGE amount of energy is available for << $0.20....AND examples of what 1kWh of energy can do....How many hours on a generator-bike///How many pull-ups///How far a toy car might travel///How far a projectile could travel///How many times a cell phone could be charged////How long a laptop could operate///etc,etc,etc....Most people really have NO IDEA...
5) Perhaps develop some specific examples of ways AE can be cheaply and efficiently incorporated into the average household....For instance...solar hot water is the #1 best return on investment available in AE by at least an order of magnitude...In the same vein, properly insulating doors, windows, attics, basements and crawl spaces is far more cost effective than attempting to produce AE to offset heating/cooling costs....But in some cases energy efficiency is not the most cost effective approach...for instance in cities where water is expensive and typically tied to waste water treatment costs, it is common practice to "recirculate" hot water from the water heater to the point-of-use to "save water" when there is hot water demand...this is a HUGE waste of energy, but it is more cost effective than wasting water......The point here being that suggestions//examples of "effective uses" of AE should always take the entire situation into account....What is good in one case is NOT ALWAYS good in another...
Summary: In short AE is generally viewed as a panacea to "replace grid power with free, renewable energy", but the reality is that AE is only one fairly small component in a complete re-vamping of the way we use energy....so let's throw some ideas around about how to create a "sticky" thread we can point newbies to in an effort to help them learn about the Realities of Energy use and how AE might be used to both meliorate the environment and help lower overall energy consumption//costs.
I know this site is dedicated to electronics, and Alternative Energy is at best a fringe component of Electronics, but there are posts nearly every day from people who do not understand the distinction between Electric Power and Electronics....So if the site is already generating the AE traffic, and you can't really stop it, why not embrace it and at least attempt to answer the more common questions/concerns/problems in an efficient manner? Perhaps even create an AE sub-forum.....With this in mind, it is my hope that others will chime in to help "flesh out" the above outline...add more items....eliminate some....etc and then perhaps a mod/admin can extract the information into a coherent, informative sticky...And when the newbies post the already answered questions a simple "link" will suffice.....no need to recklessly disseminate any information about the "Top Secret Search Feature"...hehehe....
Fish
1) Energy Conversion Efficiency.....People always seem to assume that they can "use" all 100W from a source capable of outputting 100W...ie, if they have a 100W solar panel and it is "sunny" 14 hours a day, they assume they can STORE 1400W of power in a battery bank and later convert that 1400W to 120Vac/240Vac grid equivalent power....Obviously this is NOT the case. Other scenarios include inverter efficiencies, Rated Output vs Real-World output, Power available in the wind @ any particular Wind Speed vs Electrical power output @ the same wind speed.....Battery Charging Efficiency....Copper losses in power transmission (ie why NOT to use 1000' of 26ga wire for transmission of 12Vdc @ 10A, lol)....etc, etc. Basically a primer on the third law of thermodynamics....
2) "Eliminating" Grid Demand vs "Replacing" Grid Demand....This is a bit of a play on words, but the idea is that if you "eliminate" an existing grid demand and instead power the device in question directly from an AE source, then the economic viability of the project can increase orders of magnitude....If, for example, you replace 10 "wall-wart" chargers that generally remain "plugged in" 24/7 with a single "solar charger" then you may have "eliminated" as much as 1.2kWh/Day from existing grid consumption, but the panel itself may only need to output 0.5 kWh per day to perform the same charging functions....while a solar array to "Replace" the 1.2kWh/day of grid demand might need to output as much as 5kWh/Day....Not everything has to "plug-in" to the wall....
3) Reducing Consumption is infinitely more cost effective than AE power production....People ASSUME that producing "free power" will "offset wasting power", but in all truly successful AE installations the biggest "savings" comes from Managing//Reducing Consumption....
4) How much 1kWh REALLY IS....Most people have NO IDEA what a HUGE amount of energy is available for << $0.20....AND examples of what 1kWh of energy can do....How many hours on a generator-bike///How many pull-ups///How far a toy car might travel///How far a projectile could travel///How many times a cell phone could be charged////How long a laptop could operate///etc,etc,etc....Most people really have NO IDEA...
5) Perhaps develop some specific examples of ways AE can be cheaply and efficiently incorporated into the average household....For instance...solar hot water is the #1 best return on investment available in AE by at least an order of magnitude...In the same vein, properly insulating doors, windows, attics, basements and crawl spaces is far more cost effective than attempting to produce AE to offset heating/cooling costs....But in some cases energy efficiency is not the most cost effective approach...for instance in cities where water is expensive and typically tied to waste water treatment costs, it is common practice to "recirculate" hot water from the water heater to the point-of-use to "save water" when there is hot water demand...this is a HUGE waste of energy, but it is more cost effective than wasting water......The point here being that suggestions//examples of "effective uses" of AE should always take the entire situation into account....What is good in one case is NOT ALWAYS good in another...
Summary: In short AE is generally viewed as a panacea to "replace grid power with free, renewable energy", but the reality is that AE is only one fairly small component in a complete re-vamping of the way we use energy....so let's throw some ideas around about how to create a "sticky" thread we can point newbies to in an effort to help them learn about the Realities of Energy use and how AE might be used to both meliorate the environment and help lower overall energy consumption//costs.
I know this site is dedicated to electronics, and Alternative Energy is at best a fringe component of Electronics, but there are posts nearly every day from people who do not understand the distinction between Electric Power and Electronics....So if the site is already generating the AE traffic, and you can't really stop it, why not embrace it and at least attempt to answer the more common questions/concerns/problems in an efficient manner? Perhaps even create an AE sub-forum.....With this in mind, it is my hope that others will chime in to help "flesh out" the above outline...add more items....eliminate some....etc and then perhaps a mod/admin can extract the information into a coherent, informative sticky...And when the newbies post the already answered questions a simple "link" will suffice.....no need to recklessly disseminate any information about the "Top Secret Search Feature"...hehehe....
Fish
the thread has my support.
