Ademco Vista-15 Install Manual

Crash Gordon · Mar 22, 2006

One of my installers almost burned a house down with a 12v 7amp battery when
he was doing an install...I got there just as the smoke was exiting the
front door. He was in the back bedroom when I came in the front door. Small
scrap of wire had shorted the battery terminals. It was just about to flame
when I walked in. Those batteries can be dangerous. Kindling temp of paper
is 451 f...remember the novel?

|> This is entirely possible and have seen several of my
| > panels over the years come very close to to igniting
| > from neglected batteries. I never leave anything in
| > the box.
|
| That's surprising, Crash. In the 24 years I installed for a
| living it never happened to me. I've never even seen an alarm
| battery get more than uncomfortably hot.
|
| Paper ignites at about 450º Fahrenheit (230ºC). That's hot
| enough to roast a turkey. If your control panel cabinet reaches
| that temperature, (1) something is drastically wrong; and (2)
| your control panel is no longer functioning.
|
| I don't doubt your panel got hot enough to make it seem as though
| it was ready to ignite, but reality is they just don't get that
| hot, even in Waco.
|
| --
|
| Regards,
| Robert L Bass
|
| Bass Burglar Alarms
| The Online DIY Store
| http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
|
| --
|
| Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large
| groups.
|

Robert L Bass · Mar 23, 2006

you can justify your stuffing electric device cabinets

with paper any way you want...

I never said anything about stuffing electrical cabinets with
paper. I said I leave the manuals inside the low voltage alarm
cabinet. You don't, but then again, I also don't lock my
customers out of their own systems like some people do. That's
the only reason you won't give the customer *his* manual or the
programming code to *his* system. Try to justify your lack of
ethics by claiming you're worried about fire all you want. We
both know you're just a crooked alarm dealer.

but most of us are not selling off our accounts and moving
out of the country...

How unfortunate for your vict... er, customers.

We are sticking around to stand behind our work and...

.... grab as much money as you can. Yes, I know.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

Robert L Bass · Mar 23, 2006

One of my installers almost burned a house down with a 12v 7amp battery when

he was doing an install...I got there just as the smoke was exiting the
front door. He was in the back bedroom when I came in the front door. Small
scrap of wire had shorted the battery terminals. It was just about to flame
when I walked in. Those batteries can be dangerous. Kindling temp of paper
is 451 f...remember the novel?

Yes, I do remember. It's science fiction. Your tech almost
caused a fire by shorting out a battery. That was not due to the
presence of paper in the cabinet. In fact, such an event causes
an almost instantaneous burn as the wire heats up in a split
second. I know because the same thing happened to me once when I
inadvertently miswired a second battery to a Napco battery
harness (the same device about which I posted a really dumb
mistake a year or so ago

). Fortunately, that happened on the
bench in my office. The copper wire turned white hot, burned off
the insulation and incinerated itself. Inside the panel this
would never happen since the wires don't get moved around after
the door is shut.

During the normal course of use the panel will not heat up and
neither will the battery.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

Mark Leuck · Mar 23, 2006

Robert L Bass said:
I never said anything about stuffing electrical cabinets with
paper. I said I leave the manuals inside the low voltage alarm
cabinet. You don't, but then again, I also don't lock my
customers out of their own systems like some people do. That's
the only reason you won't give the customer *his* manual or the
programming code to *his* system. Try to justify your lack of
ethics by claiming you're worried about fire all you want. We
both know you're just a crooked alarm dealer.

Last I checked a "low voltage alarm cabinet" IS an electrical cabinet, and
you know full well that not leaving the manual isn't locking a customer into
anything

Mark Leuck · Mar 23, 2006

Robert L Bass said:
Yes, I do remember. It's science fiction. Your tech almost
caused a fire by shorting out a battery.

(Careful Crash I think he's calling you a liar, this is the start of Phase
1)

Group-Moderator · Mar 23, 2006

Robert L Bass said:
Yes, I do remember. It's science fiction. Your tech almost
caused a fire by shorting out a battery. That was not due to the
presence of paper in the cabinet. In fact, such an event causes
an almost instantaneous burn as the wire heats up in a split
second. I know because the same thing happened to me once when I
inadvertently miswired a second battery to a Napco battery
harness (the same device about which I posted a really dumb
mistake a year or so ago). Fortunately, that happened on the
bench in my office. The copper wire turned white hot, burned off
the insulation and incinerated itself. Inside the panel this
would never happen since the wires don't get moved around after
the door is shut.

During the normal course of use the panel will not heat up and
neither will the battery.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms

Battery Diode Harness StoryFrom: [email protected] (Group Moderator)
Newsgroups: alt.security.alarms
Subject: REPOST: Battery Diode Story - GOOFY BASS WRONG AGAIN
Lines: 89
NNTP-Posting-Host: ngpost-m2.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [email protected]
Date: 22 May 2002 07:13:17 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

REPOSTED FOR THOSE WHO REQUESTED IT:
This is the guy ROBERT L. (Lunatic) Goofy Bass that his Clones think he is
so
knowledgeable about alarms.
*******************************************************************************

Battery Diode Story

Bass Was Totally Wrong - This was taken right from www.google.com
Subject: Re: Connecting more batteries
Newsgroups: alt.security.alarms
Date: 2002-04-08 07:38:27 PST

> > > >

I think you've got this one wrong, friend. Napco provided a Battery Diode >

Harness for use on their MA-3000 panels for years. I've used them to wire

when > > > > I installed their add-on power supply. In fact, it's still
listed
on the > > > > ADI server as a valid part, although AFAIK Napco has stopped
producing them. > > > > > > > > If you make current flow in the wrong
direction
on a battery charging > > > > circuit you'll have a lot more than a dead
battery to worry about. To test > > > > your theory take a discharged
battery
and connect its terminals to another, > > > > fully charged battery with the
terminals reversed (so you can get current to > > > > "flow back into the
dead
battery"). All kidding aside, don't really try > > > > this. The results can
include fire and explosion, depending on the type of > > > > battery and its
condition. > > > > > > > > BTW, the charging circuits on many alarms are
actually 13.8VDC -- not 12 > > > > Volts. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > >
Robert L Bass > > > > > > > > =============================> > > > > Bass
Home
Electronics > > > > The Online DIY Alarm Store > > > >
http://www.Bass-Home.comSales & Tech Support > > > > 941-925-9747 Fax > > > >
[email protected] >
This is the CORRECT answer
Again taken from www.google.com

> > > Sorry, Robert,
but it looks like you have this one wrong on two counts > > > and Nomen
Nescio
is right on the money. Like you, I have also done > > > countless
multiple-battery MA3000 commercial fire and burg installs > > > over the
years.optional PS3000 power supply, but do need to supervise for AC > > >
brownout.
This module connects the PS3000 jack to the AUX relay, which > > > is
triggered
upon brownout. > > > > > > Secondly, the Dual Battery Harness, to which I
believe you were > > > referring in your post, does not have a diode in it
at
all, it simply > > > parallels the battery leads to allow the connection of
2
or more > > > batteries to the MA3000, or any other panel. > > > > > > I do
not
think UL would require a diode in the battery harness that > > > would waste
a
valuable 0.7 VDC in a low battery condition just to > > > protect against
the
installer reversing the battery leads > > > accidentally. There is already a
thermal circuit breaker on the board > > > for this type of protection. > >two directions, you will soon have a very dead battery. > > > > > > Best
Regards, Oleg

HERE NORMAN PROVES GOOFY ASS WRONG ALSO

Nomen Nescio wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Better not use a diode to isolate
the
two batteries. Remember, current has > > > > > to flow both directions on a
battery lead: into the battery when it's > > > > > charging, and out of the
battery when it's discharging. So if you orient > > > > > the anode towards
the
charging terminal and the cathode towards the > > > > > battery, the battery
will charge but will not be able to deliver power to > > > > > the system
when
the AC is off. If you orient the diode the other > > > > > direction, the
battery will not charge. > > > > > > > > > > Diodes also have a 0.6 volt
drop
across them, so if you charge a battery > > > > > through a diode, you are
not
getting the full charging voltage. > > > > > > > > > > Use a fuse or circuit
breaker instead, preferably the harness provided by > > > > > the panel
manufacturer.

SO those who want to take Goofy Bass's advise because you think he knows
every
thing -THINK TWICE.

Mike, Sr.
Alarm Services Inc.(NJ)
Group Moderator
http://www.AlarmServicesInc.Com

APPROVED VENDOR - Attention DIY's & Newbies
http://www.goofysplace.com/GOOFY/altsecurityalarms_.htm

Visit The Goofy Bass Website
http://www.goofysplace.com/

Mr.Double-sided Tape · Mar 23, 2006

Crash won't be a liar for at least 2 more months. We haven't even hit
the "misguided/misinformed individual" stage. Stop jumping the gun.
Besides, Crash is too fucking polite to post any decent flames. He's
like Bob LaLonde without the fishing gear.
BTW, are you on the "plonked" list yet?

Mark Leuck · Mar 23, 2006

Mr.Double-sided Tape said:
Crash won't be a liar for at least 2 more months. We haven't even hit
the "misguided/misinformed individual" stage. Stop jumping the gun.
Besides, Crash is too fucking polite to post any decent flames. He's
like Bob LaLonde without the fishing gear.

Wrong!, you know damn well Tom that according to the manual (page 33
paragraph 2)...

"Phase 1 begins and is defined thereof if RLB hints or openly calls a second
party a liar"

and if you read the next line it states....

"Phase 1 is independent to the reaction or comments of the offended party"

Therefore it doesn't matter how Crash responds it's still an official Phase
1

BTW, are you on the "plonked" list yet?

Naa I'm still hovering around Phase 3 although I hear you just made Phase
9.3

Mr.Double-sided Tape · Mar 23, 2006

Do you realize in mentioning "hovering" you're creating a buzz amongst
the paranormal crowd?

Crash Gordon · Mar 23, 2006

Exactly. So, you don't think a short can happen in an alarm panel? Man I
wish I had saved the last semi-exploded battery I removed from an old
neglected system a few months ago.

|> One of my installers almost burned a house down with a 12v 7amp battery
when
| > he was doing an install...I got there just as the smoke was exiting the
| > front door. He was in the back bedroom when I came in the front door.
Small
| > scrap of wire had shorted the battery terminals. It was just about to
flame
| > when I walked in. Those batteries can be dangerous. Kindling temp of
paper
| > is 451 f...remember the novel?
|
| Yes, I do remember. It's science fiction. Your tech almost
| caused a fire by shorting out a battery. That was not due to the
| presence of paper in the cabinet. In fact, such an event causes
| an almost instantaneous burn as the wire heats up in a split
| second. I know because the same thing happened to me once when I
| inadvertently miswired a second battery to a Napco battery
| harness (the same device about which I posted a really dumb
| mistake a year or so ago

Frank Olson · Mar 23, 2006

Crash said:
Exactly. So, you don't think a short can happen in an alarm panel? Man I
wish I had saved the last semi-exploded battery I removed from an old
neglected system a few months ago.

Actually, I'm sure direct shorts could have happened on any number of
Robert's installs; after all, he did advise a DIY'er here to hook a
siren up directly to the battery through a relay on a DSC system.
Thankfully, he never installed any DSC systems because he thinks they're
unreliable (he only sells them on line).

Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com

Crash Gordon · Mar 23, 2006

Ford didn't give me the secret computer codes to my Mustang, I had to pay a
technician to pull them out and change them.

|> you can justify your stuffing electric device cabinets
| > with paper any way you want...
|
| I never said anything about stuffing electrical cabinets with
| paper. I said I leave the manuals inside the low voltage alarm
| cabinet. You don't, but then again, I also don't lock my
| customers out of their own systems like some people do. That's
| the only reason you won't give the customer *his* manual or the
| programming code to *his* system. Try to justify your lack of
| ethics by claiming you're worried about fire all you want. We
| both know you're just a crooked alarm dealer.
|
| > but most of us are not selling off our accounts and moving
| > out of the country...
|
| How unfortunate for your vict... er, customers.
|
| > We are sticking around to stand behind our work and...
|
| ... grab as much money as you can. Yes, I know.
|
| --
|
| Regards,
| Robert L Bass
|
| Bass Burglar Alarms
| The Online DIY Store
| http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
|
| --
|
| Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large
| groups.
|

Frank Olson · Mar 23, 2006

Crash said:
Ford didn't give me the secret computer codes to my Mustang, I had to pay a
technician to pull them out and change them.

Gasp!!!

Bob Worthy · Mar 23, 2006

I never said anything about stuffing electrical cabinets with
paper. I said I leave the manuals inside the low voltage alarm
cabinet.

"I leave" as is present tense? (click file, save DBPR, Robert L Bass)

You don't, but then again, I also don't lock my
customers out of their own systems like some people do.

"I also don't lock my customer out" as in present tense? (click file, save
DBPR, Robert L Bass)

That's the only reason you won't give the customer *his* manual

I am sure they all get the manual for what they are and that is the user. As
in USERS MANUAL.

or the

programming code to *his* system.

I am sure they get the programming code for what they are, and that is the
user or subscriber, to provide them access to what is referred to as,
SUBSCRIBER LEVEL PROGRAMMING. Try reading sometime and more importantly
interpet and and understand what you are reading.

Try to justify your lack of
ethics by claiming you're worried about fire all you want.

So let me get this straight. You say that because someone is worried about a
potential fire hazzard, they are wrong or have a lack of ethics because they
don't put a combustible into an area that may (for what ever reason) have a
potential for fire. Why is metal can required? Why do all pentrations and
ends of conduit require fire caulk? Is so fire cannot get into the can or is
it so that fire can not get out of the can? I would be interested in seeing
your response to these questions. How does being proacitve equate to lack of
ethics? I'll bet you store your gas cans next to your hot water heat. But
what the hell, they are both gas, what could it hurt. With your line of
thinking here, nothing will happen because you are so ethical. This may be
another one for the "bASS Book of Knowledge"

We
both know you're just an alarm dealer sticking around to stand behind your work and...

... grab as much money as you can.

Someone outside the *real* industry doesn't know how hard that is these
days when everything is free. I don't see bASS having to compete with that
marketing philosophy in his business. He just has to contend with cease and
desists orders, the DBPR, and the BBB.

Robert L Bass · Mar 23, 2006

Ford didn't give me the secret computer codes to my

Mustang, I had to pay a technician to pull them out
and change them.

That leads to two questions. First, what can you do with the
code that you can't do without it? Second, why would you want a
Mustang? I've been looking at a '96 Supra -- kind of like four
wheels mounted to a jet engine.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

Robert L Bass · Mar 23, 2006

Exactly. So, you don't think a short can happen in an alarm panel? Man I

wish I had saved the last semi-exploded battery I removed from an old
neglected system a few months ago.

I believe you, Crash, but in my experience the panel never has
gotten anywhere near hot enough to ignite paper. Even if the
battery were to rupture, it still wouldn't heat up enough to
ignite paper. In fact, I cut open an old gel cell once (don't
ask why). The material inside didn't flow out. It's a thick,
gelatinous stuff.

And yes, wires inside a panel can short. The result is an
instantaneous blown fuse. Battery leads won't short unless you
do something really bad and if you do it will be with the panel
door open and the tech standing there (looking really
surprised

).

BTW, I don't know what other folks do but I've always wrapped
battery terminals with a layer of tape, the same thing I did to
screws behind keypads and stuff, to prevent an accidental short.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

Mark Leuck · Mar 23, 2006

Robert L Bass said:
That leads to two questions. First, what can you do with the
code that you can't do without it?

Change the power curve, valve timings etc

Second, why would you want a
Mustang? I've been looking at a '96 Supra -- kind of like four
wheels mounted to a jet engine.

Heh, thats funny because Supra's sucked

coord · Mar 23, 2006

Mark Leuck said:
Change the power curve, valve timings etc

Heh, thats funny because Supra's sucked

96 Supra Turbo

Base Number of Cylinders: 6 Base Engine Size: 3 liters
Base Engine Type: Inline 6 Horsepower: 320 hp
Max Horsepower: 5600 rpm Torque: 315 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4000 rpm Drive Type: RWD

Looks like pretty good numbers to me...a little better than a Chevette...

Crash Gordon · Mar 24, 2006

Robert L Bass · Mar 24, 2006

All sorts of stuff you can fine tune in the computer

(personally, I know nothing about tweeking it, but
the guy I bring it to does).

Oh. I don't work on cars. I bring them to professional
mechanics.

Why...it's fast and it was a good value at the time.

It may have been a good value but fast is relative. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

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