ADA approved Pull Staion incident

[Nick Markowitz]

Went to hook up an Electrical contractors Fire system for monitoring today
told electricain i di not think pull stations he was using were correct for
this job said he would ask his boss the Fire Marshal showed up and
when the Electricain's boss I was working with showed up and got into a
pissing match with the fire marshal over the Edwards 270ASPO Pull station
the Fire Marshall did not want glass break station and told them station was
not ADA approved. Electricains boss produced cut sheet showing
it meets ADA less than 5 pound pull requirment but Fire Marshal produced
ADA-AG Code 4.1.1(13) which specificaly shows how station must be
constructed to allow individual with an infirmity like arthritus in the
hands.
to be able to operate a device .
and building we were working on had to meet 4.1.1(13)
needless to say the archietects screwed up again.
and all pull stations were changed.
The Electricans boss is lucky he is not in jail and job site shut down for
being such an ASS with the Fire Marshal
When are these idiots going to larn that just becuase a drawing is approved
does not mean its right.
almost all contracts i work with requires field verifcation of the job site
for proper compliance.

--
Nick Markowitz Jr.
Owner
Markowitz Electic Protection
Private Industry Fire Investigator.

Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.

"To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"

 

[G. Morgan]

alt.security.alarms

Went to hook up an Electrical contractors Fire system for monitoring today
told electricain i di not think pull stations he was using were correct for
this job said he would ask his boss the Fire Marshal showed up and
when the Electricain's boss I was working with showed up and got into a
pissing match with the fire marshal over the Edwards 270ASPO Pull station
the Fire Marshall did not want glass break station and told them station was
not ADA approved. Electricains boss produced cut sheet showing
it meets ADA less than 5 pound pull requirment but Fire Marshal produced
ADA-AG Code 4.1.1(13) which specificaly shows how station must be
constructed to allow individual with an infirmity like arthritus in the
hands.
to be able to operate a device .
and building we were working on had to meet 4.1.1(13)
needless to say the archietects screwed up again.
and all pull stations were changed.
The Electricans boss is lucky he is not in jail and job site shut down for
being such an ASS with the Fire Marshal
When are these idiots going to larn that just becuase a drawing is approved
does not mean its right.
almost all contracts i work with requires field verifcation of the job site
for proper compliance.

I can't read your posts unless you punctuate your sentences,
capitalize your "I's", and hit "F7" before you hit 'send'.

Really Nick - you claim you're a professional writer. I don't buy the
dyslexia bit.

Other than that, keep up the good work! ;~!

 

[jackcsg]

Went to hook up an Electrical contractors Fire system for monitoring today
told electricain i di not think pull stations he was using were correct for
this job said he would ask his boss the Fire Marshal showed up and
when the Electricain's boss I was working with showed up and got into a
pissing match with the fire marshal over the Edwards 270ASPO Pull station
the Fire Marshall did not want glass break station and told them station was
not ADA approved. Electricains boss produced cut sheet showing
it meets ADA less than 5 pound pull requirment but Fire Marshal produced
ADA-AG Code 4.1.1(13) which specificaly shows how station must be
constructed to allow individual with an infirmity like arthritus in the
hands.
to be able to operate a device .
and building we were working on had to meet 4.1.1(13)
needless to say the archietects screwed up again.
and all pull stations were changed.
The Electricans boss is lucky he is not in jail and job site shut down for
being such an ASS with the Fire Marshal
When are these idiots going to larn that just becuase a drawing is approved
does not mean its right.
almost all contracts i work with requires field verifcation of the job site
for proper compliance.

Just another good example of not pre-planning. If your going to install
commercial Fire Alarm systems, and not submit drawing packages, and cut
sheets to the AHJ's making the decisions, be prepared on site for changes,
and the fact that the next time, this particular AHJ will remember you as
trying to cut corners and will always look deeper at what else you might be
doing wrong. Most times I see the right Pull Station in the wrong location,
or height to meet ADA.

Jack

 

[Nick Markowitz]

You sound like Al every time I send him an aticle:} Come out with me on a
job some time and watch.
You will have no problem seeing im dyslexic.
Its even more fun when one of my Electrician buddies
works with me who is also dyslexic and your calling wire colors and
terminal numbers.
But somehow we always get it to work.
--
Nick Markowitz Jr.
Owner
Markowitz Electic Protection
Private Industry Fire Investigator.

Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.

"To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"

 

[Rocky_T_Squirrel, Esq.]

what if your state FM tells you to forget ADA..
Just make it look acceptable..

Tell that to a lawyer as see how far it goes..
RTS

(true story in Kentucky USA)

 

[jackcsg]

what if your state FM tells you to forget ADA..
Just make it look acceptable..

Tell that to a lawyer as see how far it goes..
RTS

(true story in Kentucky USA)

It happened to me in Missouri. The local FM told me they don't enforce ADA,
nor do they care too, nor does he care. I told him that was fine (he may
want to keep that to himself), but it is my company policy to comply with
Federally Mandated Guidelines, and Laws. An FM would loose that battle at a
Federal level, and probably loose Federal Funding for his State in some
areas, if they decided to go public with such an ill concern for disabled
veteran's, and the handicap. It's called discrimination....and since the
sixties, I don't know of too many lawyers that wouldn't see it as a winning
case. Although, I can't speak for Kentucky...sounds like a ignorant Lawyer.

Jack

 

[Bob La Londe]

What ticks me off about the whole process is that in some states (Az is one)
an electrical engineer is required to certify FA plans, but no fire system
certification like NICET is required. They also, don't have to pay when it
all has to be modified when it doesn't even match up with the building that
they never bothered to visit.

Worse, I have been told to bid jobs exactly as drawn even after I have told
the GC, building owner, and FM that it is not compliant. I tend to
calculate fire systems out and double the price these day. I also demand a
signature on contracts with a specific inclusion that any variances required
from the drawings and contract proposla willbe paid by the customer. I
leave it to them to sue the GC or engineer. I get paid or I place a lien on
the building. I don't do much commercial fire anymore, but I sure don't
miss it. Digital video is a lot more fun.

 

[jackcsg]

What ticks me off about the whole process is that in some states (Az is one)
an electrical engineer is required to certify FA plans, but no fire system
certification like NICET is required. They also, don't have to pay when it
all has to be modified when it doesn't even match up with the building that
they never bothered to visit.

Worse, I have been told to bid jobs exactly as drawn even after I have told
the GC, building owner, and FM that it is not compliant. I tend to
calculate fire systems out and double the price these day. I also demand a
signature on contracts with a specific inclusion that any variances required
from the drawings and contract proposla willbe paid by the customer. I
leave it to them to sue the GC or engineer. I get paid or I place a lien on
the building. I don't do much commercial fire anymore, but I sure don't
miss it. Digital video is a lot more fun.

--
** FREE Fishing Lures
** Weekly drawing
** Public Fishing and Boating Forums
** www.YumaBassMan.com

I have to agree with you Bob, my Fire Alarm (Commercial) have also started
to double in price. I'm even thinking of charging engineering fees on my
drawing packages before a price is even given. But just like you, I enjoy
Video a whole lot better...

Jack

 

[Robert Bass]

Come out with me on a

job some time and watch.
You will have no problem
seeing im dyslexic.

Have you heard about the insomniac, agnostic, dyslexic who stayed up all
night wondering if there really is a dog? :^)

 

[Nick Markowitz]

very old joke.

--
Nick Markowitz Jr.
Owner
Markowitz Electic Protection
Private Industry Fire Investigator.

Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.

"To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"