1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

[Ross Herbert]

Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the benefit
on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less than
at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the
sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.

For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority
that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply
runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.

 

[AB]

Who did you use ? What $$$

 

[David L. Jones]

Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the
benefit
on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less
than
at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to
the
sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.

For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply
authority
that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter
simply
runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.

Awesome.
Show us some pics!

How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?

Dave.

 

[David L. Jones]

Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the
benefit
on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less
than
at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to
the
sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.

For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply
authority
that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter
simply
runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.

Awesome.
Show us some pics!

How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?

Dave.

 

[Eeyore]

Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the benefit
on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less than
at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the
sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.

For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority
that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply
runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.

Whats' the value of the saved electricity and when do you expect to see a 'break
even point' for the installation including cost of finance or lost interest on
capital ?

What's your location btw ? I assume the panel isn't a tracking type and is set for
optimum fixed radiation over the year.

Graham

 

[Franc Zabkar]

Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the benefit
on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less than
at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the
sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.

For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority
that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply
runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.

I saw this on TV last night:
http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php

What's the catch? The net cost for a 1kW system appears to be $450,
the cost of the smart meter.

- Franc Zabkar

 

[David L. Jones]

--

I saw this on TV last night:
http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php

What's the catch? The net cost for a 1kW system appears to be $450,
the cost of the smart meter.

Hmm...
The catch might be that the *installation service* only is free?
Too bad we aren't eligible for the rebate :-(

Dave.

 

[Ross Herbert]

:On Tue, 05 May 2009 09:51:56 GMT, Ross Herbert
:<[email protected]> put finger to keyboard and composed:
:
:>Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the
benefit
:>on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less
than
:>at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the
:>sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:>
:>For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority
:>that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply
:>runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:
:I saw this on TV last night:
:http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php
:
:What's the catch? The net cost for a 1kW system appears to be $450,
:the cost of the smart meter.
:
:- Franc Zabkar

The Nuenergy offer is basically a SCAM. The PV panels are of unknown make and
can be either mono or polycrystalline type-it is not stated in the advertising.
The inverter is an unknown brand with unknown Chinese pedigree. The system is
run on a bulk purchase only deal AIUI - you pays your money up front and you
wait, and wait,,,, and perhaps you never even get to see your PV system and your
money has disappeared. Would you buy a new car on this basis?

The legitimate suppliers are up in arms and are making representation to the
ACCC to have Nuenergy explain/comply with customer protection standards.

 

[Ross Herbert]

::> Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the
:> benefit
:> on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less
:> than
:> at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to
:> the
:> sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:>
:> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply
:> authority
:> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter
:> simply
:> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:
:Awesome.
:Show us some pics!
:
:How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?
:
ave.
:


I used Enviro-Friendly Products in ACT as the supplier.
http://www.enviro-friendly.com/default.shtml

They simply arranged for the WA Sharp wholesaler to deliver the goods to the
address and for a verified installer nominated by the wholesaler to inspect the
site and provide a quote for installation to Enviro-Friendly. All up cost after
RECS ($966)and the $8K rebate was $5,334. Witha different supplier and different
components you can get lower pricing but I went for high quality over dubious or
unknown brand quality. I have posted pics and a bill of materials on abse - I'll
bet Nuenergy won't supply anything like these components.

 

[Ross Vumbaca]

Hi Ross,

The Nuenergy offer is basically a SCAM. The PV panels are of unknown make and
can be either mono or polycrystalline type-it is not stated in the advertising.
The inverter is an unknown brand with unknown Chinese pedigree. The system is
run on a bulk purchase only deal AIUI - you pays your money up front and you
wait, and wait,,,, and perhaps you never even get to see your PV system and your
money has disappeared. Would you buy a new car on this basis?

The legitimate suppliers are up in arms and are making representation to the
ACCC to have Nuenergy explain/comply with customer protection standards.

According to their FAQ at:
http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pdfs/20090501_nue_faqs.pdf

The inverter is an "SMA Sunny Boy (German)" not 'unknown Chinese
pedigree', the PV panels are "6 x 170W mono-crystalline CEEG".

There is no indication that you would lose the deposit (unless they are
a true con and plan to disappear).

I would like to know more about whether they are REALLY a scam or not,
because it's getting really hard to decide what to do, and time is
running out.

They sure do offer an attractive offer for people that aren't earning >
$100 000, thanks to the rebate. The indication is that the whole system
is free, as they use the Rebate and sale of RECs to fund it. However
they may well be a scam, though not for the reason you mention above,
unless their FAQ blatantly lies.

Regards,

Ross..

 

[Ross Vumbaca]

Hi Ross,

Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the benefit
on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less than
at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the
sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.

For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority
that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply
runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.

This company: http://www.solarsave.com.au/products.html

is offering a 1kW system with an 'Australian made' inverter, for $1990
after the rebate, which is a damn sight less than the $4000-$5000 that a
lot of other suppliers are asking for. They are apparently a "Clean
Energy Council Accredited Installer" (whatever that means).

Have you heard of them, or are they dodgy too?

Regards,

Ross..

 

[David L. Jones]

::> Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw
the
:> benefit
:> on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh
less
:> than
:> at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due
to
:> the
:> sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:>
:> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply
:> authority
:> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter
:> simply
:> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:
:Awesome.
:Show us some pics!
:
:How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?
:
ave.
:


I used Enviro-Friendly Products in ACT as the supplier.
http://www.enviro-friendly.com/default.shtml

They simply arranged for the WA Sharp wholesaler to deliver the goods to
the
address and for a verified installer nominated by the wholesaler to
inspect the
site and provide a quote for installation to Enviro-Friendly. All up cost
after
RECS ($966)and the $8K rebate was $5,334. Witha different supplier and
different
components you can get lower pricing but I went for high quality over
dubious or
unknown brand quality. I have posted pics and a bill of materials on abse

Thanks
But can you post the photos on the web some how, for those (like me) that
don't have easy acess to ABSE?

Thanks
Dave.

 

[Ross Herbert]

:Hi Ross,
:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:
:> The Nuenergy offer is basically a SCAM. The PV panels are of unknown make and
:> can be either mono or polycrystalline type-it is not stated in the
advertising.
:> The inverter is an unknown brand with unknown Chinese pedigree. The system is
:> run on a bulk purchase only deal AIUI - you pays your money up front and you
:> wait, and wait,,,, and perhaps you never even get to see your PV system and
your
:> money has disappeared. Would you buy a new car on this basis?
:>
:> The legitimate suppliers are up in arms and are making representation to the
:> ACCC to have Nuenergy explain/comply with customer protection standards.
:
:According to their FAQ at:
:http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pdfs/20090501_nue_faqs.pdf
:
:The inverter is an "SMA Sunny Boy (German)" not 'unknown Chinese
edigree', the PV panels are "6 x 170W mono-crystalline CEEG".
:
:There is no indication that you would lose the deposit (unless they are
:a true con and plan to disappear).
:
:I would like to know more about whether they are REALLY a scam or not,
:because it's getting really hard to decide what to do, and time is
:running out.
:
:They sure do offer an attractive offer for people that aren't earning >
:$100 000, thanks to the rebate. The indication is that the whole system
:is free, as they use the Rebate and sale of RECs to fund it. However
:they may well be a scam, though not for the reason you mention above,
:unless their FAQ blatantly lies.
:
:Regards,
:
:Ross..


I hadn't actually looked at their site but had merely been in discussion with
another person who was more aware of their practises than I.

I fail to see how they can both supply the equioment AND carry out the
installation for less than the $8K rebate plus RECS.

If you wanted to install a similar quality system to the Sharp 1kW system
yourself then look at the costs involved;

PV panels Sharp 24V 175W NTR5E3E cost $1,550 each
http://www.energymatters.com.au/sharp-solar-panel-175watt-24volt-mono-p-4.html
and a Fronius IG15 inverter costs $3,074
http://www.energymatters.com.au/fronius-1500watt-grid-connect-inverter-ig-15-p-624.html

These 2 items alone account for $12,374 alone for a 1kW system so even if you
receive $9000 in rebate and RECS you still have to find $3,374 PLUS extraneous
materials such as roof frame, isolator CB's, cabling etc, plus contractor
labour. Remember, If you don't use a contractor who is certified to install
solar PV systems you don't get the $8K rebate, so that expense must be on top of
all other items.

I know for a fact that on my system, the contractor charges for installation
came to $2000 all up so add that to the above 2 items and we have $5,374 out of
pocket costs, and that doesn't include the frame and extraneous items. Sharp
have done a package deal to provide ALL items, right down to the necessary
labels for the various CB's and the meter box, so that the system can be
supplied and installed for the same as you would pay just for the PV panels and
inverter, including certified contarctor installation, while still making a
small profit.

Even using a Sunny Boy 1100W inverter instead of a Fronius IG15 will set you
back around $2,360
http://www.energymatters.com.au/sma-sunny-boy-1100watt-grid-connect-inverter-p-401.html
And cheaper (but still good quality) panels such as Uni-Solar will cost $1,204
ea
http://www.energymatters.com.au/unisolar-solar-panel-124watt-24volt-amorphous-p-60.html
so you do the sums. Note that the above prices are discounted from the rrp. This
combination will save you $2,790 over the Sharp system, but you are still up for
installation costs plus all the extraneous items.

It is impossible for Nuenergy to provide and install anything approaching the
quality of the Sharp 1kW system (or even the Sunny Boy/Uni-Solar) for the cost
of the $8K rebate plus RECS while still making a profit. It has to be a scam.

 

[Ross Herbert]

::> On Wed, 6 May 2009 16:49:56 +1000, "David L. Jones" <[email protected]>
:> wrote:
:>
:> ::> :> Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw
:> the
:> :> benefit
:> :> on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh
:> less
:> :> than
:> :> at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due
:> to
:> :> the
:> :> sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:> :>
:> :> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply
:> :> authority
:> :> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter
:> :> simply
:> :> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:> :
:> :Awesome.
:> :Show us some pics!
:> :
:> :How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?
:> :
:> ave.
:> :
:>
:>
:> I used Enviro-Friendly Products in ACT as the supplier.
:> http://www.enviro-friendly.com/default.shtml
:>
:> They simply arranged for the WA Sharp wholesaler to deliver the goods to
:> the
:> address and for a verified installer nominated by the wholesaler to
:> inspect the
:> site and provide a quote for installation to Enviro-Friendly. All up cost
:> after
:> RECS ($966)and the $8K rebate was $5,334. Witha different supplier and
:> different
:> components you can get lower pricing but I went for high quality over
:> dubious or
:> unknown brand quality. I have posted pics and a bill of materials on abse
:
:Thanks
:But can you post the photos on the web some how, for those (like me) that
:don't have easy acess to ABSE?
:
:Thanks
ave.
:

Sorry, I don't make special arrangements for those on gmail accounts. I pay for
my ISP to provide web, email and NG's and I'm a self funded retiree.

 

[Ross Herbert]

:Hi Ross,
:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:> Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the
benefit
:> on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less
than
:> at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the
:> sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:>
:> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority
:> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply
:> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:
:This company: http://www.solarsave.com.au/products.html
:
:is offering a 1kW system with an 'Australian made' inverter, for $1990
:after the rebate, which is a damn sight less than the $4000-$5000 that a
:lot of other suppliers are asking for. They are apparently a "Clean
:Energy Council Accredited Installer" (whatever that means).
:
:Have you heard of them, or are they dodgy too?
:
:Regards,
:
:Ross..


Hadn't heard of this mob either but I would doubt if they would be dodgy since
they have to live here...

Let's take a look at what they offer. The 1kW system uses a Latronics 1200W
inverter which sells for around $1,880
http://www.energymatters.com.au/latronics-pv-edge-grid-connect-inverter-1200watt-p-94.html
This inverter has a max DC input voltage of 100V which means that you have to
connect the PV panels in series/parl combination so that means the cabling has
to be heavier than when using say a Fronius which has input DC voltage = 400V.
A cheaper polycrystalline 24V 170W panel such as Suntech still costs $1,419 ea
http://www.energymatters.com.au/suntech-170watt-24volt-polycrystalline-solar-panel-p-649.html

So that adds up to $10,394 and we still haven't included all of the
miscellaneous items or installation costs. These additional items would cost say
$2,000 which makes a grand total of $12,394 installed. Subtract RECS + rebate =
$8,966 and we still have to find $3,428.

I can't see Solar Save getting their inverters or panels much cheaper than
energymatters and they still have to make a profit on them. The only way they
can do a $1,990 deal would be to knock off $1,438 in installation costs to bring
it to that figure. I can't see any company being able to remain in business if
they are providing and installing systems for almost zero profit even if they
are doing installations for free.

 

[Ross Herbert]

I meant to say;

:I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are providing
:and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are doing
:installations for free.

 

[TonyS]

::> On Wed, 6 May 2009 16:49:56 +1000, "David L. Jones" <[email protected]>
:> wrote:
:>
:> ::> :> Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw
:> the
:> :> benefit
:> :> on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh
:> less
:> :> than
:> :> at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due
:> to
:> :> the
:> :> sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:> :>
:> :> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply
:> :> authority
:> :> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter
:> :> simply
:> :> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:> :
:> :Awesome.
:> :Show us some pics!
:> :
:> :How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?
:> :
:> ave.
:> :
:>
:>
:> I used Enviro-Friendly Products in ACT as the supplier.
:> http://www.enviro-friendly.com/default.shtml
:>
:> They simply arranged for the WA Sharp wholesaler to deliver the goods to
:> the
:> address and for a verified installer nominated by the wholesaler to
:> inspect the
:> site and provide a quote for installation to Enviro-Friendly. All up cost
:> after
:> RECS ($966)and the $8K rebate was $5,334. Witha different supplier and
:> different
:> components you can get lower pricing but I went for high quality over
:> dubious or
:> unknown brand quality. I have posted pics and a bill of materials on abse
:
:Thanks
:But can you post the photos on the web some how, for those (like me) that
:don't have easy acess to ABSE?
:
:Thanks
ave.
:

Sorry, I don't make special arrangements for those on gmail accounts. I pay for
my ISP to provide web, email and NG's and I'm a self funded retiree.

I am with iinet. They don't provide access to any binary NGs.

 

[atec 7 7]

I meant to say;

:I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are providing
:and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are doing
:installations for free.

its possible to buy a 1kw system in China for around 4k Us , which means
in real terms about 30% off the retail price here for a real wholesale
but .. looks better now

 

[David L. Jones]

--

::> On Wed, 6 May 2009 16:49:56 +1000, "David L. Jones" <[email protected]>
:> wrote:
:>
:> ::> :> Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw
:> the
:> :> benefit
:> :> on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2
kWh
:> less
:> :> than
:> :> at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W
due
:> to
:> :> the
:> :> sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:> :>
:> :> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply
:> :> authority
:> :> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old
meter
:> :> simply
:> :> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:> :
:> :Awesome.
:> :Show us some pics!
:> :
:> :How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?
:> :
:> ave.
:> :
:>
:>
:> I used Enviro-Friendly Products in ACT as the supplier.
:> http://www.enviro-friendly.com/default.shtml
:>
:> They simply arranged for the WA Sharp wholesaler to deliver the goods
to
:> the
:> address and for a verified installer nominated by the wholesaler to
:> inspect the
:> site and provide a quote for installation to Enviro-Friendly. All up
cost
:> after
:> RECS ($966)and the $8K rebate was $5,334. Witha different supplier and
:> different
:> components you can get lower pricing but I went for high quality over
:> dubious or
:> unknown brand quality. I have posted pics and a bill of materials on
abse
:
:Thanks
:But can you post the photos on the web some how, for those (like me) that
:don't have easy acess to ABSE?
:
:Thanks
ave.
:

Sorry, I don't make special arrangements for those on gmail accounts. I
pay for
my ISP to provide web, email and NG's and I'm a self funded retiree.

If you took the time to notice I am posting from a "real" news server, not
Google Groups. Yes, I happen to use gmail for my email on newsgroups.
Not that I can understand your problem, I'm hardly some "google grouper"
newbie, I'm only like the 2nd or 3rd biggest contributor to this group :->
Many people with "real" news servers just like you do not have access to
ABSE.
With your ISP you are almost certainly paying for web space, which is course
a much better way to show your stuff for many reasons. But hey, your choice.
Someone was kind enough to email me your attachments.

Regards
Dave.

 

[Ross Herbert]

:Ross Herbert wrote:
:> On Thu, 07 May 2009 09:52:40 GMT, Ross Herbert <[email protected]>
wrote:
:>
:> I meant to say;
:>
:> :I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are
providing
:> :and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are doing
:> :installations for free.
:its possible to buy a 1kw system in China for around 4k Us , which means
:in real terms about 30% off the retail price here for a real wholesale
:but .. looks better now


So $US4K is approx $AU5K3. How much to import all the parts from China while
making sure they comply with Australian standards? Who verifies that they do
comply - and what if they don't? You still have to pay for installation at
current labour costs on top of all this. One would imagine that Nuenergy would
still be trying to make a profit on top of all the charges so it still can't be
done for zero out of pocket expenses as claimed by Nuenergy.

It should also be remembered that all the costs have to be submitted to the
Australian goverment when applying for the $8K rebate, which has to be done
before you even place anorder for the equipment. Do you think they would approve
the rebate if you were not going to actually have an out of pocket expense?